Training in China vs Everywhere else

[Wuxia007]

Has anyone studied CMA in both China and the home country?
What were some noticeable differences in your training?
Was there much of an improvement to justify traveling all the way to China to study CMA or did you find it to be in the end unnecessary because you realized you could have accomplished the same thing in your home country?
Sometimes I wonder if we romanticize training in China a bit.
I've studied a few TCMA styles and modern Wushu in both the US and in Mainland China and I came to the conclusion that mainland China really doesn't have that much more to offer in your CMA training than the US.
Do you really need to travel to Shaolin Temple to train under a Shaolin monk? There are Shaolin monks who have set up shop all over the world, why can't you stay closer to home to study under them? Obviously, you have to be able separate the fake Shaolin monks from the real ones.
Did you do it because you were hoping to study under a real Chinese Sifu? If so, why does matter if your CMA instructor in your home country isn't Chinese?
I'm just curious to know if anyone found it beneficial and justifiable to travel to China to study CMA as oppose to staying in their home country to study.

[RenDaHai]

If you reduce kung fu to just its movements, to some quantity, then no, you can learn that anywhere.

But there is a huge difference within going to China, to small village, dedicating yourself to a master and learning a local tradition or training in a Wushu school in a major city with other foreigners. If you can immerse yourself in the culture, then it is very valuable as you will begin to see the world through very different eyes. But its about how much you separate yourself, how much of your world you need to take with you. If you really LIVE it then you will see Kung fu is a very different entity, an attitude of mind with a rich philosophical history and correspondence to all aspects of the holistic Chinese culture, a culture which you will not merely passively observe but actively participate in and revere.

If you have a very specific purpose for learning Kung fu then I suspect it is not worth going to China, but if you are someone who simply lives it, then immersing yourself in the culture changes everything.

For example, imagine learning about the Bible from a critical philosopher as opposed to from a franciscan monk. The content is the same but the learning experience is very different, learning from someone who knows about it or someone who has faith in it and lives by it. In the mountains Kung fu is a religion and form is its ritual of prayer. You can't reduce that to something you practice in a leisure centre for two hours a week.

But take what I say with a pinch of salt, I am highly biased, I spent a lot of time in China.

[SteveLau]

Sure there will be difference between the two. If the question is which is better, then there is no definite anwser. Training locally will likely to have a local flavour.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[bawang]

the golden age for foreigner to train kung fu in china was 1980-1990. now the country is heading through big changes kung fu is not a priority and many normal kung fu ppl dont teach that much anymore. if u looking for spiritual experience by traveling to china to learn kung fu dont bother. kung fu can be a catalyst for self improvement but it is not enough alone to help you. sure if u go on an exotic kung fu safari you can experience spiritual feelings and wonder but when it ends nothing will have changed for you.


many ppl kung fu quest outwardly seem like spiritual quest but if u think hard it is actually a quest for masculinity. i think for many of the 70's american kung fu generation their masculinity was damaged in one form or another.


the common themes from old school chop socky movies often showed things lacking in postmodern society.

[David Jamieson]

you can train wherever you like nowadays.

[GeneChing]

Here in the U.S., it's a delight to train alongside a few dozen people regularly. In China, it's such a part of their daily experience that you can't throw a rock in a park and not hit Taiji practitioners. It's not at all odd to carry weapons around. Plus there's nothing like the feeling of practicing inside Shaolin Temple, or on top of Wudangshan, or even on the Great Wall. Sure, you can practice anywhere. But who cares if you mess up when you're practicing alone in your backyard? When you're practicing in China, you commit more, because you've worked so hard to get there.

Plus it's a lot of fun to see the world, and China is a huge part of that.

[Wuxia007]

the golden age for foreigner to train kung fu in china was 1980-1990. now the country is heading through big changes kung fu is not a priority and many normal kung fu ppl dont teach that much anymore. if u looking for spiritual experience by traveling to china to learn kung fu dont bother. kung fu can be a catalyst for self improvement but it is not enough alone to help you. sure if u go on an exotic kung fu safari you can experience spiritual feelings and wonder but when it ends nothing will have changed for you.


many ppl kung fu quest outwardly seem like spiritual quest but if u think hard it is actually a quest for masculinity. i think for many of the 70's american kung fu generation their masculinity was damaged in one form or another.


the common themes from old school chop socky movies often showed things lacking in postmodern society.

The interesting thing was that I got more of that type of experience at my old U.S. Kung fu school than I did in China. At my old kung fu school in the US my sifu taught proper traditional kung fu greetings, culture, history, etiquettes, etc. Even when going to dinners together as a class he emphasized proper Chinese/Kung Fu table etiquettes. What foods were good for the body and mind.
When I was in China and studied Chen style Tai Chi for a month. The Sifu chain smoked the whole time. Didn't explain anything about the moves. Basically, I paid money. He taught me some moves and then ignored me the rest of class. If I'm paying you to teach me to dance, at least watch me dance!


While in China I did eventually find a good sifu and learned a lot from her. However, there was still nothing about culture, history, etiquettes, etc. taught or practiced in her class. You simple showed up, learned the moves, and went home.
I'm not saying I didn't like the lack of "Safari kung fu quest". It really didn't care because Thats not what I was looking for.
I'm just saying if someone were to ask where to go to experience their "kung fu safari quest" I would have no clue what to tell them because I witnessed no form of that in China in my experience.
Like I said, I got more of that at home in my old US kung fu school than I did I'm China.

[Jimbo]

The interesting thing was that I got more of that type of experience at my old U.S. Kung fu school than I did in China. At my old kung fu school in the US my sifu taught proper traditional kung fu greetings, culture, history, etiquettes, etc. Even when going to dinners together as a class he emphasized proper Chinese/Kung Fu table etiquettes. What foods were good for the body and mind.
When I was in China and studied Chen style Tai Chi for a month. The Sifu chain smoked the whole time. Didn't explain anything about the moves. Basically, I paid money. He taught me some moves and then ignored me the rest of class. If I'm paying you to teach me to dance, at least watch me dance!


While in China I did eventually find a good sifu and learned a lot from her. However, there was still nothing about culture, history, etiquettes, etc. taught or practiced in her class. You simple showed up, learned the moves, and went home.
I'm not saying I didn't like the lack of "Safari kung fu quest". It really didn't care because Thats not what I was looking for.
I'm just saying if someone were to ask where to go to experience their "kung fu safari quest" I would have no clue what to tell them because I witnessed no form of that in China in my experience.
Like I said, I got more of that at home in my old US kung fu school than I did I'm China.

I'm willing to bet there was no culture, etc., taught in your sifu's class in China because you were IN China; meaning, it was expected that being there, you were already immersed in it. Maybe this teacher did not ordinarily cater to foreigners, and thus did not feel, nor have, any responsibility to teach Chinese culture. In the USA, Chinese culture is seen as 'alien' or 'exotic'. So some Kung fu schools will offer certain aspects of traditional Chinese culture and etiquette, etc., to attract those interested in that.

But the experience you describe is not unusual. When I lived in Taiwan, I saw many old teachers who chain-smoked, especially many from the mainland. It wouldn't be any different in China itself, and probably in HK as well. My first teacher in Taiwan (northern mantis/Long Fist) was an old mainlander from Shandong. His teaching method was much like you described of your experience in China. He was an excellent MAist, but a terrible teacher. He had many, many students, including some really good senior students, but he had no organized teaching curriculum. In fact, it was his senior students who did the bulk of the teaching.

My second teacher in Taiwan (also northern mantis) was much younger, and also highly skilled, though only a couple years older than myself. He was very hands-on. His class could be regimented or informal. He taught basics, applications, sparring, form, etc. He also discussed various aspects of 'Kung fu etiquette', etc. I was acquainted with him for a few months before I switched over to him. If he saw you were genuinely passionate about KF, *and if he saw that you had some natural talent for it and could grasp and retain concepts quickly, AND worked your @ss off*, he showed you a lot. I guess I was lucky in that regard. If a foreigner came along and wanted to study only a month, he would teach them, but barely, and he didn't care if they got it or not. Because, he felt, 'Why should I bother if they're leaving in a month anyway?' And he had no tolerance at all for people who were either slow learners or lazy. That might sound harsh to some, but that's how he was, like it or lump it. He didn't smoke, but he drank. A lot. Yet he was in very good condition.

I'm willing to bet that both approaches are pretty 'traditional'.

I will say that whatever cultural experiences I got were from living over there. This happened not in a month, but over several years. It wasn't exotic or mysterious, as some foreigners seem to expect (I'm not saying YOU, but many Westerners in general), just different. It takes immersion and adjustment, which isn't always comfortable. My adjustment took different stages, from seeing everything as new and unique, to culture shock, then gradually adjusting into it. That takes a lot more than a month.

[bawang]

While in China I did eventually find a good sifu and learned a lot from her. However, there was still nothing about culture, history, etiquettes, etc.
.

it is basically impossible to find traditional kung fu teacher for "culture history etiquette" in north and central china as a westerner because anti foreigner sentiment is a pillar of traditional northern kung fu culture. i dont condone it but it is what it is.

i dont even think they teach other chinese people from the big cities

[SPJ]

Has anyone studied CMA in both China and the home country?
What were some noticeable differences in your training?
Was there much of an improvement to justify traveling all the way to China to study CMA or did you find it to be in the end unnecessary because you realized you could have accomplished the same thing in your home country?
Sometimes I wonder if we romanticize training in China a bit.
I've studied a few TCMA styles and modern Wushu in both the US and in Mainland China and I came to the conclusion that mainland China really doesn't have that much more to offer in your CMA training than the US.
Do you really need to travel to Shaolin Temple to train under a Shaolin monk? There are Shaolin monks who have set up shop all over the world, why can't you stay closer to home to study under them? Obviously, you have to be able separate the fake Shaolin monks from the real ones.
Did you do it because you were hoping to study under a real Chinese Sifu? If so, why does matter if your CMA instructor in your home country isn't Chinese?
I'm just curious to know if anyone found it beneficial and justifiable to travel to China to study CMA as oppose to staying in their home country to study.

If you find a good teacher, you will learn much from he or she.

It does not matter where the teacher resides.