Why is Lineage so important to some people?

[Water Dragon]

Lineage is very important. Lineage guarantees that you have access to a solid training method. A good lineage includes high level people who are still alive and kicking, not just some long dead master.

Remember though, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

[Vapour]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
why get hit once ot create an opening why not open your own door!

neigong or no neigong... if someone stabs you so u can have an opening its not much use.

dawood

O.K. I didn't come off right again. Taijichuan is close fighting method. Most technique is applied in the distance which is akin to judo where we apply various technique including lock and throw. So the fundamental importance in our empty hand fighting tactic is to get into that vicinity in the first place.

If you do Xingyi for example, opening your own door is what exactly one do. In taijichuan the technique is there in form such as raise hands. And if your opponent is really crap or your skill level is master class, you can let him attack, evade and do a flipping magic like aikido

But in reality, if your opponent is experienced, I don't think they give you that kind of opening. Lot of people use kick as a inital opening especially in sparing competition but I think when the grab and throw is allowed, experienced practioner would break you because you are not rooted right. When I did a bit sparing with Tkd guy, my natural reaction to kick was to grab it which he told me is against the rule of sparing.

In our style, we are expected to move forward at the moment the opponent attack. While it is nice if we can evade or parry opponent attack at this point, in realistic term, that depend on difference in you and your opponent skills. You block and often you get hit.

So basically, I didn't mean we let opponent hit us. There is a saying that there is no attack or defence in taijichuan. Most of taijichuan techniques are counter and that is partly because the tactics we emply. Being hit is a result of our tactic which we perpare for by doing neigon.

Oh, and if my opponent has knife but I don't, first thing which come to my mind is "where the **** is exit?!!"

[Wuxia007]

Why is lineage so important to some people when justifying or validating a CMA school?

I never understood why some people are so caught up on lineage. It seems that Wing Chun students are the worst about it.
Real Shaolin monks vs fake Shaolin monks. Learned from Ip Man vs didn't learn from Ip Man. Original mantis style vs later mantis styles. WHO CARES?!
I don't give a flying flip who the instructor is or where he/she came from. Can he/she teach me what I want to learn?
I'm tired of hearing instructors and students claim, "My grandmaster/founder of our system once killed a gang of 30 people with his pinky." as some kind of selling point.
I'm always like, "That's great! Where can I find him? No? He's dead? Well, what flippin' good does that claim do me? I don't care what your grandmaster or founder achieved. That has no affect on your ability to teach me."

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Wuxia007;1285185]Why is lineage so important to some people when justifying or validating a CMA school?

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Name dropping unfortunately is very common in kung fu including in wing chun circles.
But while lineage labels abound-lineage itself together with demonstrating of relevant skills and teaching ability
are relevant in finding a good teacher.
Wing chun has spread very unevenly- best avoided in most cases.

[mawali]

It isn't important, or it is as important as you make it out to be.
The criterion should be the ability to impart some knowledge, skill and application so as to allow for true discipline and understanding. Anything other is usually obfuscation, which people seem to enjoy when you really examine the present situation with CMA.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Lineage and knowledge: 2 different things

Transmission and knowledge: 2 different things

Lineage and ability: 2 different things

Knowledge and ability: 2 different things

Transmission and ability: 2 different things

Lineage and transmission: 2 different things


mickey

[SteveLau]

Greetings,

Lineage and knowledge: 2 different things

Transmission and knowledge: 2 different things

Lineage and ability: 2 different things

Knowledge and ability: 2 different things

Transmission and ability: 2 different things

Lineage and transmission: 2 different things


mickey

Well written, Mickey. Lineage is important to me. The question should be how important it is. Lineage tells us whom the knowledge came from, what the lineage transmits, what are the differences from other lineages, why is it so, etc. Unfortunately, some students place too much importance on or ignore the importance of it. Sign.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[RenDaHai]

Well, I think its about why you learn Kung Fu. At the beginning when you want you just want to be good at it, then lineage doesn't matter, you need a good teacher. But after some time people who really stick with it tend to become their own teacher. In that case sometimes you are more concerned with the content you are learning than the teacher because you will make that content your own anyway, so lineage becomes very important.

[Mor Sao]

lineage means pretty much nothing.

I have met people who pander their sash under certain masters, as if just being in the school with that teacher makes them good at the style.

Nope.

Knowing where you come from is important to a point.

Hard work and training the crap out of your material is more important.

P.S. Many of the so called masters in the USA have no lineage in China. None. It was made up by teachers here. But they can kick the everlasting crap out of you.

Lineage does not help you fight nor train.

[bawang]

lineage is important if you want what is real. thats what separates kung fu from rennasance reenactment. however most of these hillbilly nobody lineage battles are dumb

[sanjuro_ronin]

When MA were about fighting and survival, lineages meant nothing.
Now that MA are about fluff and ego, lineages mean something.
Enough said.

[David Jamieson]

We ascribe "importance" to whatever we like.
If that's what is important to you, so be it.
Ultimately, all is vanity, so it's not really relevant what someone else likes.
What do you like? What do you give importance? That's what really matters.

Martial arts practices can have any aspect in them that attracts a person.
Wrestling, boxing, lineage, cultural affinity, etc etc.
We can each decide what we like and the rest of the world doesn't matter really.

[MightyB]

If you come from a good kung fu school, with a long and verifiable lineage - then lineage is important. If you come from made up bullsh*t, then you tend to scoff at the importance of lineage.

[David Jamieson]

If you come from a good kung fu school, with a long and verifiable lineage - then lineage is important. If you come from made up bullsh*t, then you tend to scoff at the importance of lineage.

The proof is in the ability to apply. Not in who your teacher was/is.

I think that the classic disconnect is there. People who train to fight don't put a lot of stock in lineage either. it's not like you're going to learn anything by osmosis. And there are loads of genuine and authentic kung fu schools that haven't fronted a fighter to date.

Which is why I say, it's not important except if you want it to be important.

[GeneChing]

...to truly understand Chinese martial arts, you must understand Chinese culture. And to truly understand Chinese culture, you must engage Confucianism.

If you just want to learn how to fight, you don't necessarily need all of the baggage that Chinese culture brings, like lineage. But there are so many treasures within Chinese culture that it's a shame to discard it for anyone who isn't a simpleton.