Why is Lineage so important to some people?

[MightyB]

I once sat through watching more than 20 Shotokan forms,

There is definitely a huge connection to Song Shan Shaolin. Every move has a direct equivalent and many repeated combinations are almost identical. In fact you could easily translate any of the forms into a Shaolin kung fu version. I am certain there is a close connection and some one actually studied at song shan at some point in its history.

You all should take 5 minutes and scan that e-book I direct linked. It covers a lot of what you all are talking about with karate / kung fu connection. Mainly about how originally karate was just a collection of techniques from a bunch of styles from various countries (Siam, China etc.) and how a loose affiliation of local martial artists codified and created the karate as we know it. The book then goes into how it became more organized and who brought in the southern Kung fu influence. shorin ryu doesn't have Sanchin so that probably says something about its origins - in the Shorin Ryu community, it's considered the mother Okinawan style.

[sanjuro_ronin]

when zhou zihe taught uechi he added a ton of grabbing drills but didnt change the form yet. after uechi went back to okinawa zhou put the new stuff inside the form and called it tiger stance boxing hu zhuang. his son called it tiger shape boxing or hu xing quan. the mother form "36" is very similar.



so it looks like the fujian boxing the karate people learned was a conservative and standardized military style without name that was openly taught to outsiders, and gave birth to many new styles between boxer rebellion and early republican era.

Yep, that is my understanding also.

[MightyB]

You all should take 5 minutes and scan that e-book I direct linked. It covers a lot of what you all are talking about with karate / kung fu connection. Mainly about how originally karate was just a collection of techniques from a bunch of styles from various countries (Siam, China etc.) and how a loose affiliation of local martial artists codified and created the karate as we know it. The book then goes into how it became more organized and who brought in the southern Kung fu influence. shorin ryu doesn't have Sanchin so that probably says something about its origins - in the Shorin Ryu community, it's considered the mother Okinawan style.

The story of Okinawan Karate as portrayed in that e-book sounds a lot like the history of the modern style of Kajukenbo. Hawaii and Okinawa have shared traits - geography and the maritime trade, which leads to mixing of customs.

[MightyB]

" much of what we today know as old-school Karate was basically cooked up in, and around, Matsuyama park, as it was a natural meeting place for Chinese experts wishing to practice their native fighting art and enthusiastic Okinawan youngsters wishing to learn stuff?

PM: Indeed I believe these embryonic circumstances cradled the birth of many famous Kata such as Suparinpei, Sanseru, Seisan, Kururunfa, and Seipai, etc.. In spite of Sanchin-like practices, which are commonly found in many southern Quanfa styles, and in spite of locating different Kata 型/形 - Xing that use identical names i.e., Seisan/13, Seipai/18, Sanseru/36 and Suparinpei/108, etc., the said Kata are not practiced or taught in any southern Quanfa style, nor has anyone to date been able to locate such practices!

JE: Ironic, isn’t it?

PM: However, not being able to locate these Kata in China doesn't mean that we cannot find pretty much identical smaller templates #1 in many Southern-based Quanfa styles i.e., Yongchun, Southern Praying Mantis and Monk Fist Boxing, etc.. Indeed, we most certainly can and have."

More detail is in the pdf.
http://cdn.karatebyjesse.com/wp-cont..._KbJ_eBook.pdf

[bawang]

shotokan is a mish mash but due to weasel nature of funakoshi its nature is obscured further. naha te came from one guy period.

its understandable due to nationalism at that time, like pigua ppl denying miao dao comes from japanese or shuai jiao ppl pretending its not mongol bokh