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Thread: Philipp Bayer videos

  1. #1

    Philipp Bayer videos

    Some good ones here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLZz2C7xFw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i17D-rO1UyA

    Watching these clips again Bayer still looks very good, incredibly fast and powerful with great movement and timing.

    Then I looked at the guys he is practicing with- their movements are weak and hesitant for the most part, although some better in the second clip. It is almost as if they don't want to touch PB?

    Can anyone explain what is going on here? Is PB simply too overwhelming for the majority of people, or are they holding back?

    Is there any clip of PB against a non-wing chun style fighter anywhere?

  2. #2
    one here where the guy appears to be genuinely trying to touch PB. his reactions are incredibly poor when it dioesn't work though

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9T3_di4O1U

  3. #3
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    The problem is we don't know the history of the other people in the clips. They could be relatively new students for all we know.

    What you'd want to see is a similar level of skill from his 1st generation students.

    I like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BBE6ENXcv4
    Not everyone is so "overwhelmed" and good example of bong displacing the opponent's arm @ 1:05/1:06.
    Last edited by CFT; 07-30-2015 at 08:12 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    I like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BBE6ENXcv4
    Not everyone is so "overwhelmed" and good example of bong displacing the opponent's arm @ 1:05/1:06.
    Not overwhelmed so much but very much a 1 way feeding exercise from Bayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Can anyone explain what is going on here? Is PB simply too overwhelming for the majority of people, or are they holding back?

    Is there any clip of PB against a non-wing chun style fighter anywhere?
    Just to be clear, you aren't under the impression that the other videos are "PB against VT fighters", are you?

    They aren't fighting or going against each other. You'll notice in most clips there are a group of students gathered around watching (and listening, but you can't hear what has been or is being explained). He's usually at a seminar teaching a new drill and the student he's using is also trying to learn along with those watching, hence the apparent "hesitation". They aren't trying to hit him. They are trying to learn a drill, then partner up and work on it. What the drill actually is or why they are doing what they're doing is often unapparent from a few seconds outtake with no explanation. You'd have to be in the room to understand what's going on, know the drill, and/or understand the concepts and training methods of the system. A drill may be where one student is purposely just feeding punches to allow his partner to work on certain aspects of attack. Without knowing that, you may be wondering why the person keeps getting hit or forced backward and doesn't seem to be "countering effectively". But this is partner drilling, not sparring.

    That said, yes, often times he is simply overwhelming them. He's hard to deal with. That's usually the cool stuff that gets edited and uploaded. That's not to say that's all that happens in training, but it definitely brings out weaknesses to be worked on and showcases some of PB's speed, timing, accuracy, etc.; probably the main reason those clips are uploaded. I would say, just enjoy such clips for PB's skill without trying to make too much of it, because the entire situation is often not clear.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Just to be clear, you aren't under the impression that the other videos are "PB against VT fighters", are you?

    They aren't fighting or going against each other. You'll notice in most clips there are a group of students gathered around watching (and listening, but you can't hear what has been or is being explained). He's usually at a seminar teaching a new drill and the student he's using is also trying to learn along with those watching, hence the apparent "hesitation". They aren't trying to hit him. They are trying to learn a drill, then partner up and work on it. What the drill actually is or why they are doing what they're doing is often unapparent from a few seconds outtake with no explanation. You'd have to be in the room to understand what's going on, know the drill, and/or understand the concepts and training methods of the system. A drill may be where one student is purposely just feeding punches to allow his partner to work on certain aspects of attack. Without knowing that, you may be wondering why the person keeps getting hit or forced backward and doesn't seem to be "countering effectively". But this is partner drilling, not sparring.

    That said, yes, often times he is simply overwhelming them. He's hard to deal with. That's usually the cool stuff that gets edited and uploaded. That's not to say that's all that happens in training, but it definitely brings out weaknesses to be worked on and showcases some of PB's speed, timing, accuracy, etc.; probably the main reason those clips are uploaded. I would say, just enjoy such clips for PB's skill without trying to make too much of it, because the entire situation is often not clear.
    It's chi sau for the most part. Not punching honestly when feeding in chi sau only hurts your training partner, even if they are Philipp Bayer. Not moving effectively in chi sau (being paralysed) has the same effect. There is plenty of this in Bayer clips. I think it is due to awe of Bayer.

    If Bayer is overwhelming students that are not moving and feeding honestly and effectively then this damages his own skill and only boosts his ego. It is a pointless extercise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    It's chi sau for the most part. Not punching honestly when feeding in chi sau only hurts your training partner, even if they are Philipp Bayer. Not moving effectively in chi sau (being paralysed) has the same effect.
    This is not sparring. It's very basic.

    If Bayer is overwhelming students that are not moving and feeding honestly and effectively then this damages his own skill and only boosts his ego. It is a pointless extercise.
    As far as you understand. Move along then.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    This is not sparring. It's very basic.
    As I said, there is no point in not feeding properly and with commitment. You only damage your training partner. Philipp Bayer does not need basic training does he?

    If there is no benefit to Bayer or his partner then what are they doing?

  9. #9
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    You already asked and I explained. If you can't understand and only want to give your ignorant criticisms, then I can't help you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    You already asked and I explained. If you can't understand and only want to give your ignorant criticisms, then I can't help you.
    Your explanation didn't make logical sense.

    In even the most basic of exercises it is necessary to to feed honestly. These students are not doing so.

    If he is teaching a very basic drill to people that don't understand ity (unlikely given who is standing there) then why is he moving outwith the bounds of that drill and attempting to overwhelm the struggling learner?

    You know the answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Your explanation didn't make logical sense.
    Because you have no understanding of Ving Tsun training methods.

    Stop watching videos and asking questions only to assert your ignorant criticisms when you're unable to understand the answer, and go to a PBVT school to find out firsthand.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Because you have no understanding of Ving Tsun training methods.

    Stop watching videos and asking questions only to assert your ignorant criticisms when you're unable to understand the answer, and go to a PBVT school to find out firsthand.
    On the contrary, I understand what they are doing. I just don't find that aspect of it very impressive. I did find a great Bayer clip recently though. He is definitely very good.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    On the contrary, I understand what they are doing. I just don't find that aspect of it very impressive.
    In the OP you asked for someone to explain to you what is going on, but you already understand and just want to bait and criticise.

    So, this is a troll thread, like your ridiculous "excellent ving tsun under pressure" thread. Great job getting people interested in posting here again. I'm done.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    In the OP you asked for someone to explain to you what is going on, but you already understand and just want to bait and criticise.

    So, this is a troll thread, like your ridiculous "excellent ving tsun under pressure" thread. Great job getting people interested in posting here again. I'm done.
    Hey, people are posting at least. The hate has drawn them in like moths to the flame.

  15. #15
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    Since the clips are both entitled "Phillipp Bayer ..." it's hardly unexpected that they're going to be full of clips in which he is the top dog.

    The others DO all seem to be seminar participants who want to learn. This might be the first time any of them has met him. As such, they're being respectful rather than trying to detach his skull from the cervical vertebrae beneath.

    He does look to be very skilled. I'd suggest he'd be a handful for just about everybody. Even you with the benefit of your ultra-realistic training and huge base of Wing Chun knowledge.

    No one knows the context of the clips and Bayer's or the other participants' intents, and thus the clips do not provide enough info to draw conclusions, sinister or benign, about what is going on or whether there is anything to criticise technically.

    You are looking for some sort of conspiracy here where none exists, I suggest.
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