Excellent ving tsun under pressure

[WcForMe]

yeahhhh ... but I think you can and should try things in a low pressure environment that you wouldn't consider when the pressure is on.

I try all sorts of weird sh*t during flow rolls in Jiu Jitsu that I wouldn't dream of trying in a competitive situation. And yes, before anyone jumps on me, I know a competition isn't a real fight. Presumably you've done a fair amount of both if you are appointing yourself as fit to judge.

That's how you learn. OTOH, if you don't go hard regularly (and that might need be only 10% of the time, the right balance is probably an individual thing), you end up with holes in your game and poor defence.

Trying to find an optimum balance is hard .... finding a balance that might not be totally optimal but will still help you improve is not.

I'm mainly participating in this discussion for fun (OK, trolling). Really I can't see the point of arguing about training methodologies as an all-or-nothing thing. As long as the student is continually improving, that is the important thing. And not everyone has the same goals for that improvement. If you're not sure, try as many approaches as possible, and choose those that best produce the desired results.

A very well thought out post. Total respect for all that has been said brother. I have nothing more to add to this. Perfect.

[LFJ]

I totally agree there is a lack of pressure but as Sifu Brian stated as most of you have pointed out, it is a friendly exchange to try and work some techniques in a free environment rather than some pre worked out drills.

But at the expense of Wing Chun fighting strategy. Forgetting about fighting strategy and just trying to work some techniques is what turned most of it into limb chasing. Bit of a detriment.

If Sifu Brian just opened up and demolished his student what is learned?

One can still use Wing Chun fighting strategy without totally wrecking the sparring partner. Cutting off their attacks, taking up space, disrupting their facing and balance... All these things can be done in a controlled manner where the student can clearly see and feel how it works and learn from it. And opportunities can be given to them to work the same tactics. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[LFJ]

But I personally feel Sifu Brian is being very shall I say kind to his student and letting him work his movements regardless if you feel it is right or wrong.

I think that was more than obvious. I just find it a shame that basic Wing Chun fighting strategy was unnecessarily abandoned for whatever purpose.

He has cool dreads and a slick accent though!

[WcForMe]

LFJ I just edited my last post on page 7 to include you as I got confused with all my replies lol please re look at it.

Cool dreads for sure! And a slick accent lol you joker! Many thanks for your input. You have brought some awesome points to the table. I understand your limb chasing pov a lot better now. Also your point on all or nothing makes sense. So the question is how can you teach me better strategy lol! Seriously apart from what you had typed already.

I do have two clips of me sparring a friend from my previous Sifu. I haven't posted them anywhere. If you would like to see them I could post them. But I'm not that good, and I'm sure everybody will pull them apart with ease. But if people wanna see them I could possibly oblige. It would be good to see more actual sparring from others too. Let's try and pull together as a online wing chun community or at least try to find some ground that we can all agree what wing chun sparring should be. But so far some very good points in this list now I feel.

[WcForMe]

You know, I fought Vale Tudo when it was still bare knukle and no weight limits.
I fought Kyokushin when it was bare knuckle and no weight limits.
In neither cases did I train with NO GLOVES when it came to head shots and neither did anyone else.
I have never been to ANY gym were training was done full contact with NO protective gear.
I have seen full contact and no gloves But with protective (dome) headgear ( Daidojuku for example).
I have trained in N.America, in Europe AND Japan under those conditions and, again I repeat, I have never seen full contact bare knuckle TRAINING with no protective gear.

Sounds like you have some impressive credentials and agreed with all of your post! So what happen to guy b? I'm pretty and wanna stay pretty thanks. I love going hard but not at the expense of my teeth (Im British, there bad enough as it is!) all for the fact that I may get attacked at some random point in my life. I'm am not the worlds greatest fighter and you have done some serious stuff I would only dream of. Full respect!!!!

[guy b.]

You can't be sure of that, and neither can they. Every responsible sport removes bleeding players from the field of play immediately because of such risks.

Sure you can. But of course badly bleeding people stop fighting in bare handed sparring.

But you said above you regard broken teeth as inconsequential and cheap to fix. Or something very similar. So why bother?

This is because you reacted like a girl to the idea of a chipped tooth. Chipped teeth occur in all grappling sports and bare handed sparring. Knocked out teeth occur far more frequently in gloved sparring. There is nothing to stop you wearing a gum shiled in bare handed sparring. I think you spent way too much on your dentistry.

[guy b.]

It's hypocritical to criticise these guys for lacking forward intent, when in the vaunted clip with Jerry most of what he shows is backward intent at high speed.

Plenty forward intent where required

[guy b.]

yeahhhh ... but I think you can and should try things in a low pressure environment that you wouldn't consider when the pressure is on.

I try all sorts of weird sh*t during flow rolls in Jiu Jitsu that I wouldn't dream of trying in a competitive situation. And yes, before anyone jumps on me, I know a competition isn't a real fight. Presumably you've done a fair amount of both if you are appointing yourself as fit to judge.

That's how you learn. OTOH, if you don't go hard regularly (and that might need be only 10% of the time, the right balance is probably an individual thing), you end up with holes in your game and poor defence.

Trying to find an optimum balance is hard .... finding a balance that might not be totally optimal but will still help you improve is not

This is true

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sounds like you have some impressive credentials and agreed with all of your post! So what happen to guy b? I'm pretty and wanna stay pretty thanks. I love going hard but not at the expense of my teeth (Im British, there bad enough as it is!) all for the fact that I may get attacked at some random point in my life. I'm am not the worlds greatest fighter and you have done some serious stuff I would only dream of. Full respect!!!!

MA to me has always been about fighting and fighting means full contact.
I don't think it is for everyone and it is most certainly a "young man's game" BUT I do believe that it should be a stage in every MA development, even more so IF they wanted to a "fighter".

[anerlich]

This is because you reacted like a girl to the idea of a chipped tooth.

More about broken teeth and those knocked out. Chipped teeth are fairly uncommon when mouthguards are worn. In my experience ... YMMV, especially as you claim far more experience than anyone else with full contact bare knuckle head shots. (Experience I daresay many may feel they could do without)

i would agree that girls usually aren't fans of damaged teeth either. You aren't exactly the Sea of Tranquillity when people criticise your favourite Youtube clip, BTW.

Chipped teeth occur in all grappling sports and bare handed sparring. Knocked out teeth occur far more frequently in gloved sparring.

Chipped teeth could occur in gloved sparring as well (I point this out because you claim to never do any, and thus might not be aware).

Presumably you have statistics to back that last statement up, since some readers seem sceptical of your claims of this nature.

There is nothing to stop you wearing a gum shiled in bare handed sparring.

I advocated that above. I've always worn one, gloves or no, and in jiu jitsu as well. Many coaches in my experience won't allow you to roll or spar without one.

I think you spent way too much on your dentistry.

Opinion noted. Perhaps you can give me a detailed breakdown of what you think I should have done based on your deep knowledge of dental procedures, their associated costs, the various alternative strategies I could have used and their associated tradeoffs. Presumably you are a dentist, work in an associated industry, or for a firm providing dental insurance, or have had substantial dental issues yourself (but of course not from full contact bareknuckle blows to the face) to be able to come to such an informed conclusion.

My financial decisions are peripheral to this fascinating argument in any case. Unless you are trying to imply my judgements there reflect my overall ability to think critically or something. Surely you would not be so cruel.