Mantis 8 vital points

[TopCrusader]

I have a question about the Northern Mantis theory/tactic of 8 vital point striking. I am not sure how to translate it into English, but in Chinese I think it reads:

七星螳螂拳之【八打八不打總論】

Something about 8 strikes, and another 8 you do not strike?
I found a article about it (I think...):
http://www.wushuweb.com/x1/forum.php...=486431&page=1

How would you say that in English? And Id like to know the background of this. Is it just 8 vital target areas and another 8 that you would not strike because they are fatal?

THANKS!

[mooyingmantis]

Your assumptions are correct. Eight nonlethal points and eight lethal/maiming points ("eight to strike, eight not to strike" literally).

[MightyB]

8 for a friendly competition, 8 for when you mean business.

Most non-hit points are common sense... don't hit your friends in the temples, don't slap both of their ear drums, don't hit their groin, don't hit the lowest point of the floating ribs etc. Have your sifu tell you the rest since they involve specific cavity attacks and therefore the knowledge is restricted to senior students.

The 8 can also vary from school to school, so even though we may say 8, if you do the research, you'll find more after you crossreference between different sources.

[Tony Puyot]

This is a good question and one I was perplexed with for a long time. In 1984 I took on the task of trying to uncover the truth of what this was trying to tell us. It was simple to understand, hurt targets and kick ass targets but the targets did not appear to support this theory.

I spent about four years working with western Doctors and acupuncturist. They were all very experienced martial artist and masters. In the end my suspicions were confirmed, the points did not make any sense. Not from an eastern or western perspective, I concluded that either this was a ploy to mislead the reader or poorly researched and uninformed document.

After years of research and deliberation, I had to scrap the theories and created my own version using the most reliable information available.

Just my 2 cents.

just keeping it real

[EarthDragon]

tony, hello brother, long time no speak. Hope all is well
I found your post interesting and have complied our own version of striking areas leathal is such a harsh word adn it depends on to much variation I just like to call these striking areas. some of the chinese are missing so if anyone has them please post

1.TOP OF THE HEAD ( BAI WEI )
THE SKULL IS WEAK WHERE THE FRONTAL AND PARIETAL BONES JOIN. A FORCEFUL BLOW CAUSES TRAUMA TO THE CRAINIAL NERVES , RESULTING IN UNCONSCIOUSNESS AND VASCULAR SHOCK. A PARTICULARY SHARP BLOW COULD CAUSE DEATH. THIS IS CONSIDERED A VERY SERIOUS ATTACK.

2. FOREHEAD ( )
A FRCEFUL BLOW COULD CAUSE A WHIPLASH INJURY FROM THE SUDDEN CHANGE IN HEAD POSITION. A VERY SHARP BLOW CAUSES CONCUSSION , BRAIN HEMORRAGE OR DEATH THIS IS CONSIDERED A SERIOUS ATTACK.

3. TEMPLE (SHEN DIAN )
THE BONE STRUCTURE IS VERY WEAK AT THIS POINT AND THE MENINGEAL ATERY AND A LARGE NERVE LIE CLOSE TO THE SKIN SURFACE. A PWERFUL BLOW CAUSES UNCONCIOUSNESS AND BRAIN CONCUSSION. A SHARP BLOW MIGHT EVEN FRACTURE THE BONE STRUCTURE AND PINCH THE MENINGEAL ARTERY. IF THE ARTERY WERE SEVERED , THERE WOULD BE AN IMMEDIATE COMPRESSION OF THE BRAIN DUE TO MASSIVE HEMORRAGE. COMA OR DEATH WOULD RESULT. . THIS IS CONSIDERED A VERY SERIOUS ATTACK.

4.EYE (YAN)
A SLIGHT POKE CAUSES UNCONTROLLABLE WATERING OF THE EYES , BLURRED VISION AND TEMPORARY BLINDNESS. A FORCEFUL POKE WILL RUPTURE THE EYEBALL OR EVEN GOUGE THE EYES OUT , CAUSING PERMANENT BLINDNESS. THIS IS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS ATTACK.

5. EAR (ER)
A BLOW TO THE EAR CAN BURST THE EARDRUM , CAUSE NERVE SHOCK OR INTERNAL BLEEDING. A SHARP BLOW CAN CAUSE BRAIN CONCUSSION OR DEATH. THIS IS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS ATTACK.

6. NOSE (BI )
THE NOSE IS COMPOSSED OF A THIN CARTILAGE MATERIAL AND HAS MANY BLOOD VESSELS CLOSE TO THE SURFACE. A BLOW CAN BREAK THE THIN BONE , CAUSING EXTREME PAIN AND EYE-WATERING BLINDNESS FROM THE OVERSTIMULATED NASAL PAIN RECEPTORS. A VERY SHARP BLOW CAN CAUSE SHOCK AN UNCONCIOUSNESS. ALTHOUGH NOT USUALLY A DEATH-DEALING BLOW , A PARTICUALLY UPWARD PENETRATING BLOW WILL SOMETIMES DRIVE BONE SPLINTERS INTO THE OPPONENTS BRAIN KILLING THEM INSTANTLY.THIS IS CONSIDERED A MINOR ATTACK.

7. UNDER NOSE PHILTRIUM ( SHUI KO GOVERNING VESSEL 26)
SERVERAL NERVES COME VERY CLOSE TO THE SURFACE OF THE SKIN HERE. A SHARP BLOW CAUSES UNCONCIOUSNESS AND POSSIBLE CONCUSSION. A LESSER BLOW CAUSES EXTEME PAIN , EYE-WATERING BLINDNESS , AND PERHAPS CHIPPED OR MISSING TEETH. THIS IS CONSIDERED A MINOR ATTACK.

8. MOUTH ( )
A POWERFUL BLOW CAN CUT UP THE INSIDE OF THE MOUTH , SPLIT OPEN THE LIPS OR DAMAGE THE TEETH. THIS IS CONSIDERED A MINOR ATTACK

9. JAW ( )
A HARD BLOW IS VERY PAINFUL AND COULD FRACTURE THE JAW OR DISLOCATE THE JAW HINGE. IF THE FACIAL NERVE IS PINCHED AGAINST THE EDGE OF THE LOWER JAW, ONE SIDE OF THE FACE WILL BE PARALIZED. THIS IS CONSIDERED A MINOR ATTACK.

10. CHIN ( )
THE CHIN IS THE TRADITIONAL TARGET OF WESTERN BOXERS. THE JAWBONE ACTS AS A LEVER AND RELAYS THE FORCE OF THE BLOW ALMOST DIRECTLY TO THE MEDULLA OBLONGATTA. AS THE MEDULLA CONTROLS THE CARDIAC-RESPIRATORY MECHANISM , PARALYSIS AND UNCONCIOUSNESS RESULT. A VERY SHARP BLOW COULD JAR THE CEREBRAL HEMISHERES AND PRODUCE A MILD CONCUSSION. WITH OUT BOXING GLOVES THIS IS CONSIDERED A SERIOUS ATTACK.

11. THE BACK OF EAR AND BASE OF SKULL ( )
A MODERATE BLOW CAUSES UNCONCIOUSNESS DUE TO A JARRING EFFECT UPON THE CEREBELLUM. A VERY POWERFUL BLOW PRODUCES CONCUSSION , BRAIN HEMORRAGE AND DEATH. THIS IS CONSIDERED A VERY SERIOUS ATTACK.

12. THROAT ( )
A POWERFUL BLOW WILL KILL BY SEVERING OR CONSTRICTING THE TRECHEA. A LESSER BLOW IS EXTREMLY PAINFUL AND CAUSES THE OPPONENT TO GAG. THIS IS CONSIDERED A SERIOUS ATTACK.

13. TRECHEA ( )
A BLOW TO THE SMALL INDENTATION AT THE BASE OF THE THROAT IS VERY PAIFUL TO THE OPPONENT AND CAUSES THE OPPONENT TO GAG. VOMITING MAY ALSO OCCUR. SEVERE INJURY COULD RESULT IF THE THIN LAYER OF SKIN IS PIERCED. THIS IS CONSIDERED A SERIOUS ATTACK.

14. SIDE OF NECK ( )
A SHARP BLOW CAUSES UNCONCIOUSNESS BY SHOCK , PRODUCED WHEN THE JUGULAR VEIN, THE CARROIDED ARTERY, AND THE VEGUS NERVE ARE STRUCK. FOR MAXIMUM EFFECT THE BLOW SHOULD BE FOCUSED BELOW AND SLIGHTLY TO THE FRONT OF THE EAR. A LESS FOWERFUL BLOW IS VERY PAINFUL AND CAUSES INVOLUNTARY MUSCLE SPASMS. THIS IS CONSIDERED A MINOR ATTACK , ALTHOUGH SERIOUS INJURY MAY RESULT FROM THE HESD HITTING THE GROUND.

15. BACK OF NECK ( )
WHIPLASH , CONCUSSION, BROKEN NEK AND DEATH WILL RESULT FROM A POWERFUL BLOW. THIS IS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS ATTACK

16. CHEEKBONE ( )
A POWERFUL BLOW CAN CRACK OR EVEN BREAK THE CHEEKBONE. EXTREME PAIN EYE-WATERING , A SHARP BLOW MAY RESULT IN THE EYE SOCKET TO BE EXPOSED CAUSING THE EYEBALL TO FALL OUT . IF THIS HAPPENS RECONTRUCTIVE SURGERY IS NEEDED TO AVOID DEMFORMATY. THIS IS CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS ATTACK

[TopCrusader]

This is a good question and one I was perplexed with for a long time. In 1984 I took on the task of trying to uncover the truth of what this was trying to tell us. It was simple to understand, hurt targets and kick ass targets but the targets did not appear to support this theory.

I spent about four years working with western Doctors and acupuncturist. They were all very experienced martial artist and masters. In the end my suspicions were confirmed, the points did not make any sense. Not from an eastern or western perspective, I concluded that either this was a ploy to mislead the reader or poorly researched and uninformed document.

After years of research and deliberation, I had to scrap the theories and created my own version using the most reliable information available.

Interesting! May I ask what 8 hit/8 do not hit points you were thinking of while doing your research?
Thanks!

[jared.a.rapp]

According to Northern Mantis practitioner Sifu Paul Eng, these are the 8 points to hit, as described in his Plum Blossom Hand form book.

1. Point between the eyes
2. Center point of the upper lip
3. Cheekbone under the eyes
4. Collarbone
5. Kneecaps and shins
6. Pubic bone
7. Ribs of the two flanks
8. Joints of the spine

Also according to Sifu Eng, these are the 8 points NOT to hit, as described in his Praying Mantis Steals the Peach form book.

1. Temples
2. Ear Drums
3. Groin
4. Kidneys
5. Sides of the diaphragm
6. Throat
7. Thoracic region (either the top of the spine between medulla and spinal cord, OR the sacrum/tailbone)

**Please note this is not medically accurate. The definition of the "thoracic region" in Western terminology is not related to these two vital areas, so just remember the two points are: the very top of the spinal cord, and the sacrum/tailbone, just above the coccyx.

8. Center of the back (THIS is the actual thoracic region).

**Note: The following information was seen on a forum discussing lethal targets on the human body: "Instantaneous death is most likely after breaks above the third cervical vertebrae or between the fifth and sixth thoracic vertebrae. (These spots are at the top of the neck, about where the spine enters the skull, and directly between the shoulder blades.)"**

Please refer to the following diagram and let me know if you have questions.