OMG! WC fighter got knocked out!

[boxerbilly]

When analyzing the video this is exactly what I was thinking- step-pivot/ simultaneous hammer fist to face (imo this would have worked if the guy in white would have used it instead of retreating backwards). as you also said billy stepping back like he did is a bad move- the guy did not have to be totally overwhelmed the way he did. the guy in black actually reminded me of a classmate i used to spar with. sometimes he got me, other times i would side step and he would just miss me allowing me to slip in some taps his way or sometimes even a throw or a takedown (which is harder to do than to punch.)

Anyway I am sure if there were video clips available of me sparring there would be 1,000 things people could pick apart or say "i should have done this..." just sharing my 2 cents after watching the video.

If we were as critical of ourselves as we are others we would see many faults in ourselves. I try to in myself. To avoid imagining that which I am not. Not that imagination is a bad thing. It is a great thing. But, where am I today.

Anyway, I believe completely wing chun can work. Everyone says the **** is in the sets. Well, having seen the pivot I just made an observation. It may or may not be emphasized in his school. His main issue was not advancing his attack. I could be wrong and again there may be many rights depending on ones understanding. But at its base level. WC should be a aggressive in your face don't let up art. I seldom see that. The fists should constantly be in the guys face and throat. Look at the main guard. It is set up to draw attacks to the mid section. If the guy goes for it bam in the face. If he tries to kick it, rush him and bam he hopefully goes down. Standing still may work for some WC guys. Backpeddeling is almost never good. It is the most instinctive response. To many things can go wrong.

Kudos to both guys seeing what they can do.

Great observations all.

[T.D.O]

If I go straight back its a half step and for 1 of 2 reasons, either to force them to commit to going forward, bringing them in to my range or a bit of room to un jam myself. But I go forward after and try to take up a good position one where I have the use of an uncovered line to the centre with the ability to reach with both hands and they don't.

sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm trying to write this while someone is talking to me lol

[boxerbilly]

If I go straight back its a half step and for 1 of 2 reasons, either to force them to commit to going forward, bringing them in to my range or a bit of room to un jam myself. But I go forward after and try to take up a good position one where I have the use of an uncovered line to the centre with the ability to reach with both hands and they don't.

sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm trying to write this while someone is talking to me lol

It makes sense. Similar to a swayback. But he did not do that. Obviously sometimes going straight back happens. The guys main problem was experience. Like was said, we can pick it apart and decide how we could correct it for the future. My main beef was regardless all the sweet moves possible, which he obviously did not have, he should have been drilled on moving forward and just keep hitting straight. And if the opponent circles. Taught to pivot on spot like those older vids I posted, and resume the advancing asap.

That's another thing about the guard, it forces your opponents to come around. They cant shoot up the middle. We all know a straight line is closer than a curved one. If he made the other guy back peddle and kept in hands in his middle ( the WC guys middle ) he probably would have done much better. That straighter arm is a barrier that has to be removed or gone around. If he got rushed that would be, in my opinion, the only time to brace in your stance and basically just stiff arm the guy.

Edit- if you watch it again, the WC guy really only switches leads. I think there was one time he actually engaged (fought) . To defensive. And you can see the CLF guy gauging the WC guard a couple of times. He knows that's all this fighter has is that guard after the first knock down. So after he is just measuring up and keeping the WC guys mind on keeping your hands right were they are.

[boxerbilly]

Alan is probably the guy to go to for WC full contact. Again, any ideas I may have are based around my having boxed and it may violate ideas WC guys believe are important aspects. In the few vids I have seen of Alan it appears to me he is not completely locked into strict WC structure, etc. Of course I do not know WC at all beyond the visual. Anyway here he is talking about bridging. Don't get hung up on him staying in spot more or less. He is showing upper art. He has feet that move too. He even mentions just shooting up the middle is not always good. So to him my idea of rushing in and straight punching is not ideal. My only reply would be this guy was ready to rumble and he did not even have that down and he is no where ready for more in depth ideas to keep from getting hit. Hell, I myself after all these years am basically a beginner with some experience. Anyway, good stuff from Alan in my opinion on your guard and bridging -the gap , even without arm contact.

I like his opinion on "basic training" and we often as people get locked into -the form and this has to be done that way or we are violating our arts principles, even after being hit hundreds of times. We try to make what we believe is correct, correct even though it continues to fail you in many forms of training or live work. So then you think I just must suck or I have not worked my breathing chi work long enough or maybe my ass is in the wrong curvature. My elbows were probably to close or out to far and I just cant seem to land properly with a vertical fist from this position. Maybe I should just go to this or that instead because I just don't get it ! Listen to Alan- might be a good place to start before you ditch anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJsOf4p96Lk

[T.D.O]

[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1286752]It makes sense. Similar to a swayback. But he did not do that. Obviously sometimes going straight back happens. The guys main problem was experience. Like was said, we can pick it apart and decide how we could correct it for the future. My main beef was regardless all the sweet moves possible, which he obviously did not have, he should have been drilled on moving forward and just keep hitting straight. And if the opponent circles. Taught to pivot on spot like those older vids I posted, and resume the advancing asap.

That's another thing about the guard, it forces your opponents to come around. They cant shoot up the middle. We all know a straight line is closer than a curved one. If he made the other guy back peddle and kept in hands in his middle ( the WC guys middle ) he probably would have done much better. That straighter arm is a barrier that has to be removed or gone around. If he got rushed that would be, in my opinion, the only time to brace in your stance and basically just stiff arm the guy.

Edit- if you watch it again, the WC guy really only switches leads. I think there was one time he actually engaged (fought) . To defensive. And you can see the CLF guy gauging the WC guard a couple of times. He knows that's all this fighter has is that guard after the first knock down. So after he is just measuring up and keeping the WC guys mind on keeping your hands right were they are.[/QUOTE

I think wcfighter has done wc for longer than me lol so don't know if it is down to experience or lack thereof.

Stiffening the arm's not the way to do it, relaxed arm with forward intention/energy/whatever.... tension makes the structure weak and easier to move. Something solid to move! ")

[boxerbilly]

Sorry, I may have explained ( stiff arm) it wrong. I meant basically locking out the arm , settling back in your stance and letting the guy run into the fist. A lot of wing chun guys keep that arm out pretty far. Going stiff arm as above should be quick and easy. For bare knuckle I love the WC guard. For gloves not as much but other guys can probably work it.

edit- I have never used a guard like that in the ring or in any street fights, none really happened on the street by the way, I see the potential for that guard . By the way, the "street" I am not sure I guarded up much anyway. I guess I must have because of my training hands just go up but either I did the pounding or I got pounded and it was all really over in a flash if it was serious. Only face and heads and bodies did any blocking. No fancy anything. Sucks I got taken out buy guys that knew nothing but pound his face over and over with say his right. Which may have not been text book correct. Elbow way out and yet. I was way out to afterwards.

I once got taken off a chair buy another guy sitting. Huge ****ing dude. He slapped me, I slapped him and BOOM, I was literally sent in the air and out of my chair. I bounced back up to attack, he got up and I was like. Dude, I am sorry. He said forget it and we kept drinking. I asked him what he ever learned and all he said was he played football in HS. Probably 6'1 250 to my at the time 5'8ish 130lbs. Im closer to 170 today. Anyway, I am lucky.

[mickey]

Greetings,

That footage reminded me of a challenge match, featuring Black Taoist, that was posted up at this forum a few years ago. It is chillingly close.

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

That footage reminded me an old XingYi saying,

"You may not know what you are going to do with your opponent, but you still keep yourself moving. When you move and move, soon or later you will find a good opportunity to attack".

To stand still like that in fighting just make no sense to me at all. When your opponent has right leg forward, if you keep move toward his right side (your left side),

if he

- doesn't move with you, he will expose his back to you.
- move with you, you have forced him to respond to your action and you have just put him in defense mode.

In fighting, to circle around your opponent is a much better strategy than just standing still.