WC Teachers- You have 3 months

[boxerbilly]

In this case they say karate and kickboxing. Notice how everyone looks sloppy more than not ? This happens more so when you are no longer sparring you own art. Some may believe it is because those guys are beginners or just not very good, etc. You may be right but you would probably be wrong more than not. They are having trouble using their stuff against another art that us able to use their stuff. Look much better if it was just TKD vs TKD.
Or, WC vs. WC .

In my opinion these Wing Chun guys are doing good against other arts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERdWPBI6MH4

[guy b.]

Wing Chun can work as a sport. Phil has been proving it. And anytime their are rules. It is SPORT.

Wing chun is complete and utter S.H.I.T as a ring sport. If you must fight in the ring then there are only a few options. Either you change wing chun until it no longer resembles wing chun (Alan Orr), you fight at very low level (Phil Redmond), you lose (most likely outcome), or you don't do it (everyone else).

Wing chun is not a ring sport. It is not designed as a ring sport. It doesn't function well as a ring sport. Why would you ever want to be in a ring fighting with wing chun? Wrong tool wrong job.

[JPinAZ]

I'm sure Phil and his guys would disagree with you.
To be fair - unless you're going to show how you would do it better (which you are not willing to do), why not cut out bashing of people that are not even part of the discussion and of which you know nothing about, eh?

[guy b.]

I'm sure Phil and his guys would disagree with you.
To be fair - unless you're going to show how you would do it better (which you are not willing to do), why not cut out bashing of people that are not even part of the discussion and of which you know nothing about, eh?

I'm sure they will get over it, or not even care.

The only reason I mention these people is that they are used in yet another thread against normal traditional wing chun training. I do happen to think that what all of the people mentioned do is not of benefit to wing chun. But that is only my opinion and what they do is their business.

There is never any discussion anywhere about actual wing chun. Always it is about adapting wing chun for the ring, where wing chun is weak, how to change wing chun to make it better, how various peoples are rejecting traditional wing chun and making it different/better, how great sport training is compared to wing chun training, etc, etc

[boxerbilly]

I'm sure they will get over it, or not even care.

The only reason I mention these people is that they are used in yet another thread against normal traditional wing chun training. I do happen to think that what all of the people mentioned do is not of benefit to wing chun. But that is only my opinion and what they do is their business.

There is never any discussion anywhere about actual wing chun. Always it is about adapting wing chun for the ring, where wing chun is weak, how to change wing chun to make it better, how various peoples are rejecting traditional wing chun and making it different/better, how great sport training is compared to wing chun training, etc, etc

My fault this thread. Yes, us with no WC training try to look at it though our lenses. Try to make sense of it. Most say it is crap. I do not see it that way. I try to find things I believe would work from my point of view. But then, I do not see with your eyes. So I am canabalizing what I could pull off ( possibly) in a way I could us similar motion. Similar is not same. It wont be WC that is for certain. It is not that sport is better or worse a lot of my beliefs were established because of where I grew up and later places I lived before coming back.

I still believe WC can work full contact. I see great potential even with rules. People have proved that so. I have no idea what WC principals may be violated in doing so.

[boxerbilly]

Wing chun is complete and utter S.H.I.T as a ring sport. If you must fight in the ring then there are only a few options. Either you change wing chun until it no longer resembles wing chun (Alan Orr), you fight at very low level (Phil Redmond), you lose (most likely outcome), or you don't do it (everyone else).

Wing chun is not a ring sport. It is not designed as a ring sport. It doesn't function well as a ring sport. Why would you ever want to be in a ring fighting with wing chun? Wrong tool wrong job.

I was impressed by Phil's student.

I have never seen any of Alan's students fight but I am certain they can.

[bawang]

wing chun uses chinese knife principles and is a method for training knife fighting. its not designed to be a complete boxing system

[boxerbilly]

wing chun uses chinese knife principles and is a method for training knife fighting. its not designed to be a complete boxing system

Thanks Bawang. Can any one concur with this ?

There are some that believe modern boxing shares more similarities with Filipino arts than with European. And that is come from the knife. I think the Filipinos contributed a great deal to modern boxing perhaps even more so than European but I think the glove was the primary reason stances, movement and fighting in close become more and more common. Why circular blows began having **** near as much importance as straight hits.

[guy b.]

Thanks Bawang. Can any one concur with this ?

No. The knife set is last taught and (should be) taught only to those who fully understand and can make work the empty hand system. The reason is that fighting with the knives is different to fighting with the hands, and doing knives at the wrong time can wreck your wing chun if you don't have a good grasp of it. This is in stark contrast to pole which should be started as early as possible.

[boxerbilly]

Thank Guy. Prior to our most modern version, say 100 year. Boxing was based around principals of fencing. I forget the guy that was credited with doing that. One may say that is when it became more scientific. It has gone through many changes through the millennium. Probably at times it all but disappeared.
But it was based around the main weapon. The fist. When we began to wear gloves we changed the weapon enough to change the methods I think. It was not that the method based on fencing was no longer functional it was with gloves some things did not work as well any longer. Guys wear willing to come in and slug. Those stiff straights , walking into walls, were not as effective as they would have been bare fisted. Prior, in fighting consisted mainly of standing grappling. There were locks mainly spinal in nature, but the objective was to throw or trip the guy to the ground. Hip throws using the neck/head were common. They also hacked in close. Neck, face, arms. You know, sword hand. Edge
of hand.

The fencing, was probably closer to the sword and dagger methods. Because both hands needed to be employed. Filipino's also have sword and dagger. Generally their swords tended to be shorter. Most believe and I do, they learned it from the Spanish. I just think not completely. And melded it with their native sword arts. Primarily their boxing would have been based around much shorted knives. Not a Bolo. Not that those ways never made it into their fist arts. Generally the shorter knife.

Fencing/boxing gets tossed around from time to time on boxing forums. Most have trouble seeing how it would work. It is because they are looking at the wrong eras of boxing and fencing. They are seeing it through todays eyes. If you ever get a chance to see John Clements book on sword fighting. Not the one on long battle field swords. You may see how many in the previous incarnation of boxing employed both hands. The forearms become the blades. The fist the tip.

[guy b.]

Thank Guy. Prior to our most modern version, say 100 year. Boxing was based around principals of fencing.

I don't know about that. What does it have to do with wing chun?

In wing chun the pole is like the hands but the knives are not, both in terms of principle and application. Why then would you assume the empty hand evolved from the knives? More likely the pole came first and the knives came later.

[boxerbilly]

I don't know about that. What does it have to do with wing chun?

In wing chun the pole is like the hands but the knives are not, both in terms of principle and application. Why then would you assume the empty hand evolved from the knives? More likely the pole came first and the knives came later.

You do know! Nothing. I did not assume. I asked if anyone could back Bawangs belief up. You said no. I went off on a tangent topic. I followed up elsewhere as I realized this is the wrong forum. I could have erased it. But why?

[guy b.]

You do know! Nothing. I did not assume. I asked if anyone could back Bawangs belief up. You said no. I went off on a tangent topic. I followed up elsewhere as I realized this is the wrong forum. I could have erased it. But why?

I don't know about the history of western boxing as it pertains to the fencing methods of the relevant historical period.

I do know about wing chun.

Therefore I am able to answer Bawang's question, which was about wing chun (rather than olde tymes western boxing)

What I am not seeing is what a theory about historical western boxing relating to fencing has to do with wing chun? Or why a person without any knowledge of wing chun is interested in a fairly cranky theory about the weapons of wing chun, but not in a fairly safe theory of same? Can you explain?

[guy b.]

Did you "follow up elsewhere" on the relation of wing chun to historical western boxing and how both were influenced by sword play forum? I haven't seen that one. Sounds like it might be full of people that like to talk a lot.

[boxerbilly]

I don't know about the history of western boxing as it pertains to the fencing methods of the relevant historical period.

I do know about wing chun.

Therefore I am able to answer Bawang's question, which was about wing chun (rather than olde tymes western boxing)

What I am not seeing is what a theory about historical western boxing relating to fencing has to do with wing chun? Or why a person without any knowledge of wing chun is interested in a fairly cranky theory about the weapons of wing chun, but not in a fairly safe theory of same? Can you explain?

Nothing. I could but I see there is no point. I'll let you get back to trashing who's WC you think sucks.