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Thread: The concerpt of cover in Wing Chun

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I hear ya about injuries. I injured my neck and back in a T-bone collision some years ago which limited my ability to do some things for a while. And, I almost cut off 3 fingers last year on a table saw - that slowed me down for a bit! lol
    That aside, if ANY art is good for your ailments, it's WC. With it's upright stance, 50/50 weight distribution and power coming from the lower half thru your knees-hips-elbows it's one of the best fighting arts for those with limited mobility and issue similar to yours (since it's aim is to stay upright and move and use as little effort as possible)!
    Oldmans WC, LOL.

    I used to work in a cabinet shop. We also built custom doors and windows. Scary stuff. I was always fearful of the jointer but the table saw was next in that line.
    Lucky no major mishaps aside from scares.

    I had my right forearm rebuilt. I severed the extensor tendons and the muscle was cut to bone. I almost died. I can not make a fist and bend it inwards.

    Again, any and everyone. Speak up and speak out against me if clearly I am wrong. I know I am but I'll probably still post, lol. But they could learn from you.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    ... Speak up and speak out against me if clearly I am wrong. I know I am but I'll probably still post, lol. But they could learn from you.
    YOU'RE WRONG!

    Sorry, but you asked for it.

    OK, truth be told, your posting here has really livened up this forum. Please continue. And about those injuries. I have more than a few myself. Bad back, knees and ankles. Getting older is the worst. So yeah, I pretty much only do "Old Man's WC". But I'm still lovin' it. And, after all I'm just a kid next to Joy (Vajramusdi). So, I'll let you younger guys do the heavy "pressure testing" and try to learn something from the sidelines. Carry on, kids!
    "No contaban con mi astucia!" --el Chapulin Colorado

    http://www.vingtsunaz.com/
    www.nationalvt.com/

  3. #33
    Back when I first started learning WC...I heard it was sometimes referred to as the lazy mans kung fu. (due to the compact and efficient nature I guess). No high kicks, or flashy moves...

  4. #34
    LOL.

    I said that because sometimes I feel like an oldman. Reminded of my grandfather on days I am really tight. Who want to be that? Yet, who can escape it?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    YOU'RE WRONG!

    Sorry, but you asked for it.

    OK, truth be told, your posting here has really livened up this forum. Please continue. And about those injuries. I have more than a few myself. Bad back, knees and ankles. Getting older is the worst. So yeah, I pretty much only do "Old Man's WC". But I'm still lovin' it. And, after all I'm just a kid next to Joy (Vajramusdi). So, I'll let you younger guys do the heavy "pressure testing" and try to learn something from the sidelines. Carry on, kids!

    I am limited at what I can continue with. There are a lot of things you guys do that I have not a clue. I may look at it and say, that will never, ever work. I don't care what you believe. Try it. But that would be probably be not completely correct because if I searched long enough I could probably find someone that is doing it in a way that I can believe and understand. At this age and things I have asked guys to do to me so I could feel it. There is a lot I do not understand. Example, I asked a daoist guy out of Mu Dong to hit me with one of his internal punches. I thought, it is bullcrap. Has to be a trick. If I can feel it I man be able to figure out how he is sinking his weight into me.
    Well he hit me in the chest after telling me no a few times and me saying, the phone book test he was doing sucked. Yeah, you are pushing me back. But big deal. Then I felt it. Okay, that's real. I have no idea what he did. I still do not think he could pull it off exchanging blows but if he had the chance to nail a guy with it first thing. Probably going to work out pretty good.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by wckf92 View Post
    For example: If I said to a student "I can make you "functional" in six months"... then I would. BUT, that means six months, training at least 3 classes a week minimum; putting in the road work outside of class; etc. MOST do not want or can't do that. MOST don't want to pay money to get beaten down and crushed class after class. The gauntlet isn't for everyone. Most just want to put on a cool looking kung fu uniform, do some forms, bow to someone, go home and watch yip man movies some more. Rinse and repeat.
    The fighters I know do 2 a days - 3 days a week while in camp. One full day rest one light day rest, and conditioning on their own. In that time mma coaches are helping them with diet and water intake.

    I actually don't know ANY kung fu students like this. 8-10 training sessions per week plus outside conditioning. I know a couple boxers who have training schedules like this.


    So did you guys want to talk more about how you're going to turn middle aged businessmen into killers able to handle mma fighters?

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    The fighters I know do 2 a days - 3 days a week while in camp. One full day rest one light day rest, and conditioning on their own. In that time mma coaches are helping them with diet and water intake.

    I actually don't know ANY kung fu students like this. 8-10 training sessions per week plus outside conditioning. I know a couple boxers who have training schedules like this.


    So did you guys want to talk more about how you're going to turn middle aged businessmen into killers able to handle mma fighters?
    There are many people training wing chun on a daily basis

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    There are many people training wing chun on a daily basis
    I'm confused at your point because you also imply it takes most likely years before someone is even functional with WC since you repeatedly claim one needs to go thru SNT, CK, Chi Sau, pole and dummy before 'functional skill' with WC can be developed.
    You're saying it takes that long even while training every day?? IMO that's a crazy amount of time before one has developed 'functional skill' in any MA, let alone WC - and most likely points to inefficiencies in a teacher and/or curriculum vs inefficiencies in the system itself. If this is the really case, it also sounds like someone probably needs to expand their WC experience a bit more

    While WC is surely unique in it's principle-based focus towards fighting, it isn't so unique that it should take sooo much longer to develop functional skill than the many arts out there that can do it in much shorter time period. That's not the WC I know - just the opposite actually. WC is supposed to be an fighting system based on efficiency and designed to build skill quickly. Looking at it as some mystical 'traditional' system that takes years before any usable skill is built is a gross misunderstanding of why the WC system was even developed in the first place.
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 10-30-2015 at 12:49 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I'm confused at your point because you also imply it takes most likely years before someone is even functional with WC since you repeatedly claim one needs to go thru SNT, CK, Chi Sau, pole and dummy before 'functional skill' with WC can be developed
    You do seem confused. The method of wing chun is the system. You need to learn it to be functional in it. How many years does it take a person to do that in your wing chun? How long is a piece of string, lol.

    Many wing chun groups spin it out far too much, in my opinion.

    You're saying it takes that long even while training every day?? IMO that's a crazy amount of time before one has developed 'functional skill' in any MA, let alone WC - and most likely points to inefficiencies in a teacher and/or curriculum vs inefficiencies in the system itself. If this is the really case, it also sounds like someone probably needs to expand their WC experience a bit more
    I don't think I aid anything about a length of time, apart from saying 3 months not long enough for anyone to be functional in the system of wing chun, even the most naturally gifted

    While WC is surely unique in it's principle-based focus towards fighting
    Many traditional CMA take a principle based approach. BJJ takes a principle based approach. It isn't unique

    it isn't so unique that it should take sooo much longer to develop functional skill than the many arts out there that can do it in much shorter time period. That's not the WC I know - just the opposite actually. WC is supposed to be an fighting system based on efficiency and designed to build skill quickly. Looking at it as some mystical 'traditional' system that takes years before any usable skill is built is a gross misunderstanding of why the WC system was even developed in the first place
    There is a long way between 3 months and "sooo much longer". You are not arguing against anything I actually said

    WC is supposed to be an fighting system based on efficiency and designed to build skill quickly. Looking at it as some mystical 'traditional' system that takes years before any usable skill is built is a gross misunderstanding of why the WC system was even developed in the first place
    Wing chun is a traditional system with a particular method. If you don't follow the method you don't end up with wing chun. It takes as long as it takes.
    Last edited by guy b.; 10-31-2015 at 03:46 AM.

  10. #40
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    Same pattern again...

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    You do seem confused. The method of wing chun is the system. You need to learn it to be functional in it. How many years does it take a person to do that in your wing chun? How long is a piece of string, lol.
    Vague and avoiding. You know, you can just say "I don't know", it's a perfectly acceptable answer
    And of course I'm confused - you are all over the place with your non-answers!

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Many wing chun groups spin it out far too much, in my opinion.
    vague

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I don't think I aid anything about a length of time, apart from saying 3 months not long enough for anyone to be functional in the system of wing chun, even the most naturally gifted
    Yes, you are good at avoiding questions and not backing up your claims - I'm glad you are able to see that too!
    Does make me wonder, how does one become an authority in what doesn't work, yet totally unable to explain what does....

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    There is a long way between 3 months and "sooo much longer".
    Gee, couldn't get any more vague than that. TBH I have no idea what you're even talking about now.

    Look, it's really simple. You've been pretty vocal about what doesn't work and even went a bit further with you formula for developing 'functional WC' (SNT, CK, Chi Sau, Dummy & Pole), why can't you tell long it takes? Hell, take a guess if you don't really know. I would think for someone to feel as strongly as you do about something, you could answer such a simple question rather easily. I mean, you do base your opinions on actual experience and not just guesses and theory right?
    I think most people that claim to be teaching WC would guess it should take an average person training every day at least a couple of years to go thru that material. And I argue that if it takes that long before WC starts to become functional, then they are doing something drastically wrong!

    Yet you continue to avoid the question like the plague. Haha, maybe you are only an expert on doesn't work

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    You are not arguing against anything I actually said
    Is that so? Eh, I guess you're right since you apparently haven't really said anything (as you even pointed out).

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Wing chun is a traditional system with a particular method. If you don't follow the method you don't end up with wing chun. It takes as long as it takes.
    Again, vague and more avoiding. Thanks for not sharing..
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 11-01-2015 at 01:15 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    You know, you can just say "I don't know", it's a perfectly acceptable answer
    And of course I'm confused - you are all over the place with your non-answers!
    I do know..it depends on the person and the situation. Of course, you know this.

    Vague
    What's vague about saying many groups take too long to teach the curriculum?

    Yes, you are good at avoiding questions and not backing up your claims - I'm glad you are able to see that too!
    Does make me wonder, how does one become an authority in what doesn't work, yet totally unable to explain what does....
    I responded to the thread. You pretended I said something else. Not avoiding anything. Ask me whatever you like and I will answer

    Look, it's really simple. You've been pretty vocal about what doesn't work and even went a bit further with you formula for developing 'functional WC' (SNT, CK, Chi Sau, Dummy & Pole), why can't you tell long it takes?
    It depends on the person and the training situation. 3 months is a sorter time than even the most gifted person can manage though.

    Hell, take a guess if you don't really know. I would think for someone to feel as strongly as you do about something, you could answer such a simple question rather easily. I mean, you do base your opinions on actual experience and not just guesses and theory right?
    It's a stupid question

    I think most people that claim to be teaching WC would guess it should take an average person training every day at least a couple of years to go thru that material. And I argue that if it takes that long before WC starts to become functional, then they are doing something drastically wrong!
    Lol

    Is that so? Eh, I guess you're right since you apparently haven't really said anything (as you even pointed out).
    If I didn't say anything then what are you arguing about?

    Again, vague and more avoiding. Thanks for not sharing..
    There is nothing evasive is stating that you need to follow the wing chun method to end up with wing chun. You can't put wing chun into a person via short cuts because it is a sequential method that builds upon what came before. If you miss bits you don't end up with wing chun

  12. #42
    I am wondering; why are you such a dishonest person JPinAZ? What's the point of it?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Not avoiding anything. Ask me whatever you like and I will answer
    Sure, and when I do you answer in the same thread..
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    It's a stupid question
    ...you avoid it again and just continue with these childish games - you can't be even be honest for one post!
    It's easy to see you're just full of sh!t, so no need to go further with your nonsense. Take my answer however you like, I'm done with you.
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 11-01-2015 at 10:12 PM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I'm done with you.
    It isn't answerable in the way you want me to answer it, it is variable. Giving a number is stupid.

    If this fact makes you want never to talk to me on a forum again then that is ok

  15. #45
    Just a question out of curiosity. What are people's Martial art experience and what branch of wing chun do you guys practice ? How many years have you trained? Many thanks
    Last edited by chaotic2k; 11-03-2015 at 05:26 AM.

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