Iron Hand Against Grapplers

[David Jamieson]

Greetings,

The reason i left this thread was because wiz cool c was talking about using Iron Palm in competition. I thought about it for a while and pretty soon found this thread both sickening and twisted. Can you imagine sending a family member of yours going into competition and coming back home paralyzed from the neck down? Just because someone is so bone hard for a victory they learned iron palm to power strike someone behind the neck?


mickey

I don't know Mickey. Why enter a tournament around martial arts if you don't expect injury? If you enter a martial arts tournament without considering the fact that you can be hurt and hurt badly even, then I think maybe a rethink is required in some cases.

Besides, if you are full contact fighting for no reason other than to get a trophy then that requires reassessment as well. If you aren't getting paid what is worth the risk, then tourney fighting is and has always been about ego all round.

[MightyB]

MightyB. I trained to fight scrubs. Heck, I probably was a scrub, LOL.

LOL Same here!
----
You know what's funny? I have no stake in this game.
Who's got two thumbs and ain't going to be fighting anybody? Me

Heck, I'm content to be one of those forms guys from now until the rest of my life. What's funny - I can't recall an ultra competitive judo guy hitting old age and going without a limp or some other ailment. So how's that for winning?

Nope, not for this guy - I plan on being one of those old bastids that can still move. I'm not sure that's going to be the case for many of our ultra hardcore MMA friends.

I just keep arguing on this one 'cuz it's been way too long since we've had a fresh 7 pager on the forum main page.

[boxerbilly]

LOL Same here!
----
You know what's funny? I have no stake in this game.
Who's got two thumbs and ain't going to be fighting anybody? Me

Heck, I'm content to be one of those forms guys from now until the rest of my life. What's funny - I can't recall an ultra competitive judo guy hitting old age and going without a limp or some other ailment. So how's that for winning?

Nope, not for this guy - I plan on being one of those old bastids that can still move. I'm not sure that's going to be the case for many of our ultra hardcore MMA friends.

I just keep arguing on this one 'cuz it's been way too long since we've had a fresh 7 pager on the forum main page.

It has been a excellent thread.

[Kellen Bassette]

And hopefully people understand that you don't drop into a solid horse stance and say "come at me bro". 'cuz that's crazy.

I would think it would go without saying that we're not talking about dropping into a pose, hands pulled back to chamber standing frozen, but God knows what assumptions are made here.

[SteveLau]

Iron palm or iron hand training seems like it would work well against grapplers [though not in a competition setting]. Being that you are constantly striking downward on a bag filled with various objects, eventually developing enormous power in even short range strikes. Seems ideal for striking down on either a grapplers skull or back of his neck,while he is trying to shoot in for a takedown. Has this topic come up before? Again I guess it is hard to test this theory unless you used it for real, but unless you are trying to seriously injury the guy.It’s hard to test this theory out.

Wiz cool c,

Yep. Some techniques like most strikes allowed in many MA styles are not found in wrestling. I figure that the main reason is that these strikes will render grappling and wrestling techniques ineffective. That means a wrestler will be likely being fended off before he reaches his opponent. That is also why MMA fight usually starts and ends with strikes only. The reachability of strike techniques tells us why.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[MightyB]

But - realize that good shoots are within arms length - know that sh*t, internalize it - that way you know to stay mobile and watch out for the traps and fakes. You can walk away from a shoot.!

This dude gets it! https://www.facebook.com/keenancorne...0954659784738/

[Frost]

Wiz cool c,

Yep. Some techniques like most strikes allowed in many MA styles are not found in wrestling. I figure that the main reason is that these strikes will render grappling and wrestling techniques ineffective. That means a wrestler will be likely being fended off before he reaches his opponent. That is also why MMA fight usually starts and ends with strikes only. The reachability of strike techniques tells us why.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

Can I ask, have you been drinking???

[YouKnowWho]

That is also why MMA fight usually starts and ends with strikes only.

A fight may start with strikes, but most of the time, it may end with clinch.

[SteveLau]

A fight may start with strikes, but most of the time, it may end with clinch.

Sure, it happens.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[wiz cool c]

anyone with fighting experience knows it is definitely better to have both grappling and striking in your arsenal, that’s why kung fu systems have throws locks and escapes[with cross training filling in the gaps]. But it really depends on a lot of things whether you end up in on the ground or in a clinch. In the early 90s the Gracies were selling there style and claiming 90 something percent of all fights end on the ground. In my own personal experience it is about 50 % of the time.

The last six real fights I have been, in three needed on the ground. One I struck a guy with an open hand strike in the throat he went down rolled onto his stomach and I kneeled behind him and choked him out[he started the fight, I gave him many opportunities to let it end peacefully]

the other was when I was working at a gym back in new York and the manager[a high ranking black belt in an eclectic style jumped me from behind] I wound up on my back on a table with him in my open guard, and arm bared him with him yelling in agony till the fight was broken up. That fight can be verified, just go to the 92nd street Y on the upper east side of Manhattan and ask one of the old trainers about a fight that took place between manager David and a trainer named Chris.

The other took place in what they call a lady bar in Beijing when I first moved to china, they tried to scam me to buy a bunch of drinks,in a little KTV room down a long hall and down some tall flight of stairs. When I refused to pay one guy tried grabbing my I used a baguazhang double handed strike/shove and sent him into the KTV machine, the other guy little bigger and more fit started coming at me. I was bit nervous [spoke no Chinese at the time, and didn’t’t know if people cary weapons or what in china] so I backed up and tripped onto the sofa and he came at me,I kept him at bay with open guard my feet keeping him away at his hips, when he got closer every time I would kick him in the face a few times. The fight ended with the hooker slapping me while I kick the one guy in the face and the other guy I shoved into the KTV machine yelling go go, from a distance. I wound up giving the manager something like 300 rmb just to get out of there quickly.

by the way these are real stories not fantasies, as far fetched as they may sound. anyone doubting their authenticity feel free to go to my facebook page[chris friedman] and see the unusual life i live, many of my real life experiences could easily be misinterpretated to be kungfuhero guy type of fantasies.

[boxerbilly]

anyone with fighting experience knows it is definitely better to have both grappling and striking in your arsenal, that’s why kung fu systems have throws locks and escapes[with cross training filling in the gaps]. But it really depends on a lot of things whether you end up in on the ground or in a clinch. In the early 90s the Gracies were selling there style and claiming 90 something percent of all fights end on the ground. In my own personal experience it is about 50 % of the time.

The last six real fights I have been, in three needed on the ground. One I struck a guy with an open hand strike in the throat he went down rolled onto his stomach and I kneeled behind him and choked him out[he started the fight, I gave him many opportunities to let it end peacefully]

the other was when I was working at a gym back in new York and the manager[a high ranking black belt in an eclectic style jumped me from behind] I wound up on my back on a table with him in my open guard, and arm bared him with him yelling in agony till the fight was broken up. That fight can be verified, just go to the 92nd street Y on the upper east side of Manhattan and ask one of the old trainers about a fight that took place between manager David and a trainer named Chris.

The other took place in what they call a lady bar in Beijing when I first moved to china, they tried to scam me to buy a bunch of drinks,in a little KTV room down a long hall and down some tall flight of stairs. When I refused to pay one guy tried grabbing my I used a baguazhang double handed strike/shove and sent him into the KTV machine, the other guy little bigger and more fit started coming at me. I was bit nervous [spoke no Chinese at the time, and didn’t’t know if people cary weapons or what in china] so I backed up and tripped onto the sofa and he came at me,I kept him at bay with open guard my feet keeping him away at his hips, when he got closer every time I would kick him in the face a few times. The fight ended with the hooker slapping me while I kick the one guy in the face and the other guy I shoved into the KTV machine yelling go go, from a distance. I wound up giving the manager something like 300 rmb just to get out of there quickly.

by the way these are real stories not fantasies, as far fetched as they may sound. anyone doubting their authenticity feel free to go to my facebook page[chris friedman] and see the unusual life i live, many of my real life experiences could easily be misinterpretated to be kungfuhero guy type of fantasies.

Thanks. I have no reason not to believe you. I was not there. A lot of times people think, this is bragging or bull****. Obviously both could be true. But this is a MA forum. Kung Fu most specifically. You guys never did corner the market on ass kicking though. Just different ways. Anyway, you wanted to share your experience. I appreciate that. It makes us hopefully see and understand, there is more than one way. This guy made things we may believe wont work, work. Etc.
This is important.

I once knew a Isshin Ryu guy. Rather great in the art. In fact he is often seen on the old Panther tapes. Great Champion in the art. Awesome at sparring and forms. And knowing where he grew up. This was suprising to me. He never had a single out of the dojo encounter that went physical. He never had to use his art. So as vast as his understanding was and the fact he was excellent by all Isshin Ryu standards and probably many outside of Isshin Ryu. He really has no idea about what happens on the street or where that may be ie, bar, classroom, grocery store , just keep adding. That does not mean he has nothing to offer me or anyone but based on our experiences, we filter what we think will not work for us. But again, just because I or you could not make something work because of bias, lack of training or understanding, or you just don't have all that is needed to pull it off , does not mean another can not do it and I love to read and watch what others have been capable of.

Thanks again.

[wiz cool c]

Yeah I had a kung fu teacher that lived in a a bad part of Manhattan throughout the70s while all kinds of crazy **** was going down, and lever had one single fight. I think it depends on one’s appearance and temperament. i am always shocked when I hear this type of thing and of course admire them. I think street fighting is stupid for sure, but when a stranger provokes you and goes out of their way to enter your world and disrupt it, it is just hard not to want to teach them a lesson.

[boxerbilly]

Yeah I had a kung fu teacher that lived in a a bad part of Manhattan throughout the70s while all kinds of crazy **** was going down, and lever had one single fight. I think it depends on one’s appearance and temperament. i am always shocked when I hear this type of thing and of course admire them. I think street fighting is stupid for sure, but when a stranger provokes you and goes out of their way to enter your world and disrupt it, it is just hard not to want to teach them a lesson.

Well anyone can doubt you but if they took the time to see what you have accomplished so far in life. It may change their belief.

Yes, I wrote about the 70's were far rougher where I grew up than in the 80's. It had a lot to do with TIMES. Today in most areas kids and people get along much, much better. This is a great thing. And one I hope continues to grow. Hatred "generally taught" is a bad thing. Not all white hate. Not all blacks hate. Not all Chinese hate. Etc, etc. When it comes down to it, we are all so similar in what we want out of life. And, man, how could you not fall in love with someone different than oneself? I did. And, how would one feel if their grandchild happens to be from a son or daughter different than you ? It is a f-ing JOKE.

That's how I grew up. Told to hate this color or that color. But when I got of the plane in California. I dropped that baggage. I found out for myself what I FEEL. Not what everyone told me to feel. As bad as things are. Or may be. I would never want that revert to older ideas as far as the US is concerned. I can inly hope all places , ever where are going into the same direction. That is an ideal anyhow.

I like people. All kinds. Rich to poor. Race is meaningless to friendship and family. And should be overall. One day.

Thanks again. Take care. That's it for me. Maybe next week I can post again. A lot of you guys have great ideas. Great stories. Share them. Let them grow.
Bawang, post up all sorts of different kung fu exercise programs. You have so much understanding. share it. Weights, bodyweights, etc. Maybe how you share needs some polish but you do it however.