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Thread: Iron Hand Against Grapplers

  1. #46
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    Yep all other stuff you do: distance, angling, stance height etc is done to make the shot harder and delay them from taking it, if they take the shot and they are in range sprawling is a must, if they shoot from too far away you can level change underhook and shrug off them, but that’s not in on your legs that a desperation shot
    Its like saying slipping or covering up is the last ditch response to a cross, nope you can delay the cross with footwork and movement and distance control, but when they are in range to throw the cross its not the last ditch response it’s the logical response
    Same here
    As for the subject
    As poster Merrypranskter said years ago, deal with the takedown first, stop their momentum and then deal out punishment, doing it any other way is asking for trouble
    Which is why I said the 90s was asking for their thread back by the way

  2. #47
    Well this is one difference between sport fighting and fighting for your life. I don’t think in any competition someone is going to aim say a hammer fist strike to the back of someone’s neck,but if some super duper badass wants to come at you in a self defense situation you might just have to do that. You might just have to jab him in the eye with a pen,don’t think mma allows that either, so never say never.


    I have competed in a couple of grappling tounements and other sport comptetions before,it does take guts and skill to do that,but I feel there is a big difference between sports and street fights. There was a video up not too long ago of an mma guy at a gas station disrespecting a girl,and then got his ass beat down by the friends of that girl.good example right there. I have been in a decent about of street fights and have used traditional techniques that sherdogers would swear wouldn’t work in a fight.i once used a broken bottle and evasive footwork to fend off three bigger guys on the corner of upper Manhattan outside a bar at 3am,learned those skills from ninjutsu. Maybe I should have pulled guard and went for a triangle choke instead though.

  3. #48
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    You miss the point, and are bring up ghost arguments , Ronin has fought true NHB where anything goes, the early UFCs banned eye gouges and biting and that’s about it, watch the early matches people tried all sorts of striking against the shot elbows to the head, hammer fists etc , no one got injured and the only knockouts happened where strikes were thrown AFTER the shot had been delt with, Same with the NHB events in Russia and Brazil where head shots elbows etc are allowed no one died, of course of course they didn’t train the iron hand method so what do they know…….
    loads of wrestlers have shot on people on the street and can you name 1 example anywhere of anyone having their head caved in or neck Brocken from such an attack it would be in newspapers etc if it had happened

    The more you type the sillier this is getting

  4. #49
    anything goes mean some rules hun? Were there friends allowed to join in the fight? Where the combatants allowed carrying concealed weapons into the ring? Were they allowed to snuff the other guy before they entered the ring. maybe shank him up while he was in the dressing room? if you answered no to any of those question you need to check your definition of anything goes.

    i know a wrestling coach in Beijing [Greco roman] he is a big guy for a chinese, about 6 foot one maybe around 200 ponds. he was with some of his friends in a car and some other guys were in another car and some **** went down over a traffic accident. the coach went over to the car reached in through the open window and grabbed the guy. the guy in the car sliced his hand bad enough for the coach to need stitches and will never be able to form a fist or close his hand completely again. this is not mma is it, as mentioned before i defended myself against three bigger guys on a street corner with evasive footwork and an improvised weapon, but this is valid cause it is not bjj or mma what a joke.i had a ninjutsu teacher that works in rykers island as a guard and uses those skills daily against the inmates, not valid though cause its not sports fighting. I myself have used traditional kung fu and other style techniques in many real fight, not valid cause there wasn’t a referee and it wasn’t mma, get real dude
    Last edited by wiz cool c; 10-05-2015 at 07:06 AM.

  5. #50
    You guys talk as if there's a huge population of people out there that even know, or can perform a decent shoot to go for a single or double leg. There's not. BJJ is terrible at it, and Judo doesn't even teach it anymore - so you have wrestling. How many good wrestlers are there? Not many. And - how many people can even physically drop low enough AND take a good penetrating step to get the single or double after 25? Again - if they're not actively practicing it - not many. So you have some people in MMA schools... but again - the population in those schools that are really good at hitting a single or double is low. You get a few of the active, competitive fighters, who aren't going to waste their time picking fights on-da-streetz that are good at the single or double leg takedowns. So what's that leave? Bull-rushers and tacklers. You can deal with these people with a good base, knowing angles, keeping low, and being mobile. And yes, you should know how to sprawl (and escape a mount) if you f**k up and get caught.

    As far as IP - I don't know, and that's mostly based on if you believe in IP.

    Be real - you are not going to be fighting. If you have to fight, it's not going to be someone who's a great MMA grappler. You're just not - so if you train hard (which is the real secret of BJJ and MMA - they train harder than everyone else) then you'll be ok.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    You guys talk as if there's a huge population of people out there that even know, or can perform a decent shoot to go for a single or double leg. There's not. BJJ is terrible at it, and Judo doesn't even teach it anymore - so you have wrestling. How many good wrestlers are there? Not many. And - how many people can even physically drop low enough AND take a good penetrating step to get the single or double after 25? Again - if they're not actively practicing it - not many. So you have some people in MMA schools... but again - the population in those schools that are really good at hitting a single or double is low. You get a few of the active, competitive fighters, who aren't going to waste their time picking fights on-da-streetz that are good at the single or double leg takedowns. So what's that leave? Bull-rushers and tacklers. You can deal with these people with a good base, knowing angles, keeping low, and being mobile. And yes, you should know how to sprawl (and escape a mount) if you f**k up and get caught.

    As far as IP - I don't know, and that's mostly based on if you believe in IP.

    Be real - you are not going to be fighting. If you have to fight, it's not going to be someone who's a great MMA grappler. You're just not - so if you train hard (which is the real secret of BJJ and MMA - they train harder than everyone else) then you'll be ok.
    So that means you shouldn’t prepare for the best opponent but train low percentage stuff that works on scrubs does it??
    And the odds of meeting someone who can hit a good double in the states are probably higher than someone who can kick box or will attack you with any TCMA type strike, its in the high school curriculum and college curriculum of another of schools and colleges and is a D1 sport
    Add in those that know how to do a good rugby tackle (basically a high double) or have played college football and can tackle (basically a blast double) and the odds go up way higher
    In Europe the odds of meeting someone who has wrestled are low, anyone who did judo as a kid and is over 25 will have learned a double leg, and anyone who did rugby likewise will also have learned something similar to a high double, so if we are talking odds you are probably more likely to face someone who knows how to do a double or something close to it than you are someone who can kick or punch

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    anything goes mean some rules hun? Were there friends allowed to join in the fight? Where the combatants allowed carrying concealed weapons into the ring? Were they allowed to snuff the other guy before they entered the ring. maybe shank him up while he was in the dressing room? if you answered no to any of those question you need to check your definition of anything goes.

    i know a wrestling coach in Beijing [Greco roman] he is a big guy for a chinese, about 6 foot one maybe around 200 ponds. he was with some of his friends in a car and some other guys were in another car and some **** went down over a traffic accident. the coach went over to the car reached in through the open window and grabbed the guy. the guy in the car sliced his hand bad enough for the coach to need stitches and will never be able to form a fist or close his hand completely again. this is not mma is it, as mentioned before i defended myself against three bigger guys on a street corner with evasive footwork and an improvised weapon, but this is valid cause it is not bjj or mma what a joke.i had a ninjutsu teacher that works in rykers island as a guard and uses those skills daily against the inmates, not valid though cause its not sports fighting. I myself have used traditional kung fu and other style techniques in many real fight, not valid cause there wasn’t a referee and it wasn’t mma, get real dude
    Get real, LMAO you are the one coming up with stories that cant be verified, what can be verified is that in all the NHB fights that have been recorded in the last 30 years, not one death or serious has come from head shots of a double leg, so leaving your fantasies aside on your original question (before you went off into fantasy land) iron hand will only help if you can stop a shot and set up a good position to strike from

  8. #53
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    I personally like to prepare for the worse case scenarios ( fighting VS someone that knows how to fight) rather than assuming I will have to fight a person that doesn't know how to fight properly.

    Here is how I view the whole competition VS real fight thing ( and I have said this a few times):

    Competition is a controlled environment, it is as even a playing field as you can get.
    Because of this IF something doesn't work there, then it probably WILL NOT work in an environment that ISN'T a level playing field and controlled.
    That is the true reality of fighting that, for some reason, some people don't grasp.

    In the real world there are no rules so if what you do in the ring does NOT work under controlled conditions, what on earth makes you think it will work under uncontrolled conditions ???
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    So that means you shouldn’t prepare for the best opponent but train low percentage stuff that works on scrubs does it??
    And the odds of meeting someone who can hit a good double in the states are probably higher than someone who can kick box or will attack you with any TCMA type strike, its in the high school curriculum and college curriculum of another of schools and colleges and is a D1 sport
    Add in those that know how to do a good rugby tackle (basically a high double) or have played college football and can tackle (basically a blast double) and the odds go up way higher
    In Europe the odds of meeting someone who has wrestled are low, anyone who did judo as a kid and is over 25 will have learned a double leg, and anyone who did rugby likewise will also have learned something similar to a high double, so if we are talking odds you are probably more likely to face someone who knows how to do a double or something close to it than you are someone who can kick or punch
    You missed part of my post which states - train hard. That's not training for scrubs. I come from a state with a reputation for wrestling, so believe me when I tell you, you're quite safe from wrestlers here. There really aren't that many good wrestlers, so odds are you will not fight good wrestlers. With that being said, people you would fight on-da-streetz do not know or are physically incapable of dropping low AND executing a quick and powerful penetrating step. So that means you'll be fighting sloppy bull rushers. Which - if you train hard, you will be ok. What you will find within the community that chooses to fight on-da-streetz, is a huge number of people thinking they can box. I'll call it Muhammed Ali syndrome. It usually starts with two peeps hopping like roosters thumping chests saying "you want some?" or something in that respect, and ends in a wild contest of haymakers in which everyone leans way tooo far back whilst flinging their fists wildly. That is da-streetz.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Get real, LMAO you are the one coming up with stories that cant be verified, what can be verified is that in all the NHB fights that have been recorded in the last 30 years, not one death or serious has come from head shots of a double leg, so leaving your fantasies aside on your original question (before you went off into fantasy land) iron hand will only help if you can stop a shot and set up a good position to strike from

    all i have seen is words so far from anyone so why are my stories any more untrustworthy than anyone else’s . i myself have been living in china 8 years, have a documentary film being made about my life, have been in 20 something commercials written 6 article for this magazine, have a book being publish soon, all can be verified by going on my face book page which Gene is a friend on, so all these accomplishments and i need to come here and make up stories of techniques i used in fights,you really think so?

    Saying anything that is not done in a ring and called MMA is not valid is just stupid. I can prove I have a teacher that works in rykers island and is an ninjutsu instructor, not sure he wants me throwing his name around on a kung fu message board, and i am sure he doesn’t film his fights cause they are not for a trophy money or fame,but you would call his job and experience fantasy though right? And I am lying cause I didn’t have someone film my real fights right? Again they weren’t in a ring for a cash prize make them less valid some how though haha
    Last edited by wiz cool c; 10-05-2015 at 08:59 AM.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I personally like to prepare for the worse case scenarios ( fighting VS someone that knows how to fight) rather than assuming I will have to fight a person that doesn't know how to fight properly.

    Here is how I view the whole competition VS real fight thing ( and I have said this a few times):

    Competition is a controlled environment, it is as even a playing field as you can get.
    Because of this IF something doesn't work there, then it probably WILL NOT work in an environment that ISN'T a level playing field and controlled.
    That is the true reality of fighting that, for some reason, some people don't grasp.

    In the real world there are no rules so if what you do in the ring does NOT work under controlled conditions, what on earth makes you think it will work under uncontrolled conditions ???
    Sanjuro im not trying to take away from your accomplishments,and you seem like a nice enough guy, so tell me how do you explain the fact that one time I used an improvised weapon and evasive footwork to defend myself against three bigger guys, there is no mma or bjj technique that would have not gotten me killed in this situation, and these techniques I used to save my ass I learned from ninjutsu. I have also used many traditionally techniques effectively in real fights and knuckle heads on message boards would swear these techniques don’t work.there are many many differences between competionon and self defense, I already mention a number of them when someone said anything goes.you might be a tough guy, you might be a talented athlete,but but self protection is not mma.

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    You guys talk as if there's a huge population of people out there that even know, or can perform a decent shoot to go for a single or double leg. There's not. BJJ is terrible at it, and Judo doesn't even teach it anymore - so you have wrestling. How many good wrestlers are there? Not many. And - how many people can even physically drop low enough AND take a good penetrating step to get the single or double after 25? Again - if they're not actively practicing it - not many. So you have some people in MMA schools... but again - the population in those schools that are really good at hitting a single or double is low. You get a few of the active, competitive fighters, who aren't going to waste their time picking fights on-da-streetz that are good at the single or double leg takedowns. So what's that leave? Bull-rushers and tacklers. You can deal with these people with a good base, knowing angles, keeping low, and being mobile. And yes, you should know how to sprawl (and escape a mount) if you f**k up and get caught.

    As far as IP - I don't know, and that's mostly based on if you believe in IP.

    Be real - you are not going to be fighting. If you have to fight, it's not going to be someone who's a great MMA grappler. You're just not - so if you train hard (which is the real secret of BJJ and MMA - they train harder than everyone else) then you'll be ok.
    Actually, there are a lot of really great wrestlers out there. Maybe not in MMA but I do not follow who is who and what they do. I once posted that the scariest most dangerous person empty hand wise that ever had the fortune to meet was Bob Anderson. All his guys were/ are GREAT wrestlers.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I personally like to prepare for the worse case scenarios ( fighting VS someone that knows how to fight) rather than assuming I will have to fight a person that doesn't know how to fight properly.

    Here is how I view the whole competition VS real fight thing ( and I have said this a few times):

    Competition is a controlled environment, it is as even a playing field as you can get.
    Because of this IF something doesn't work there, then it probably WILL NOT work in an environment that ISN'T a level playing field and controlled.
    That is the true reality of fighting that, for some reason, some people don't grasp.

    In the real world there are no rules so if what you do in the ring does NOT work under controlled conditions, what on earth makes you think it will work under uncontrolled conditions ???
    Outstand post. Thanks.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Actually, there are a lot of really great wrestlers out there. Maybe not in MMA but I do not follow who is who and what they do. I once posted that the scariest most dangerous person empty hand wise that ever had the fortune to meet was Bob Anderson. All his guys were/ are GREAT wrestlers.
    So what? Were any of them actively going out and involved in general thuggery? Absolutely not, they had better things to do. That's my point.

    I'll put it in caps YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE FIGHTING A GOOD WRESTLER OR MMA GUY ON DA STREETS. Because - first of all - you shouldn't be involving yourself in thuggery or thug type situations, and a good competitive athlete shouldn't be putting themselves in thuggery or thug type situations. A general rule of thumb to live by as a martial artist is not to be where bad people hang out.

    Now, in a situation where someone absolutely wants to do you bodily harm, they will most likely shoot you in the face.

    In one instance BJJ training did come in handy for an Airman in France - that was on a train in France. If you've read or seen any of his first hand accounts of the situation, he was extremely lucky because the gun misfired when he approached and he was stabbed in the neck narrowly missing his jugular. Either one of those situations could have rendered any training moot. Thanks to what he attributes to Divine intervention - he and a lot of train passengers are alive today.

    Ultimately if you follow, not mine, but a good general sound theory of martial arts that's been around since the stone age, and one that Silva put to good use in the MMA world: mobility, a wide base, low stances = a great way to stop yourself from being lifted and thrown.
    Last edited by MightyB; 10-05-2015 at 09:37 AM. Reason: clarification

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    So what? Were any of them actively going out and involved in general thuggery? Absolutely not, they had better things to do. That's my point.

    I'll put it in caps YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE FIGHTING A GOOD WRESTLER OR MMA GUY ON DA STREETS. Because - first of all - you shouldn't be involving yourself in thuggery or thug type situations, and a good competitive athlete shouldn't be putting themselves in thuggery or thug type situations. A general rule of thumb to live by as a martial artist is not to be where bad people hang out.

    Now, in a situation where someone absolutely wants to do you bodily harm, they will most likely shoot you in the face.

    In one instance BJJ training did come in handy for an Airman in France - that was on a train in France. If you've read or seen any of his first hand accounts of the situation, he was extremely lucky because the gun misfired when he approached and he was stabbed in the neck narrowly missing his jugular. Either one of those situations could have rendered any training moot. Thanks to what he attributes to Divine intervention - he and a lot of train passengers are alive today.

    Ultimately if you follow, not mine, but a good general sound theory of martial arts that's been around since the stone age, and one that Silva put to good use in the MMA world: mobility, a wide base, low stances = a great way to stop yourself from being lifted and thrown.
    As a generalization that may in fact be true. But not all areas. All places. Where I grew up you were most likely to face a good wrestler or a football player. 10 minutes down the road and the rules changes fast. Where you live that may not be the case at all and it is very smart to know what is likely to occur where you spend most of your time in day to day life. And the fact remains as a generalization of course. it is KIDS that do the most fighting on the streets. 13-25. After that they either stop, go to jail, die or upgrade to using weapons. Which make the die/jail results all the more likely. Again, you may live in an area where it is as common for adults to fight as it is for kids but most adults know, they can not take it like they used to anymore. Kid heals in days. We may take weeks to months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3G6CJogIUY



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3G6CJogIUY

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