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Thread: UFC 193 Rousey vs. Holly Holm NOV 14, 2015, Melbourne Australia

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    Honestly, Holm just did what southpaws are supposed to do. She took the edge when she wanted. And when she gave up the outside she always had her left square on Rousey's center. I just don't really see it as that big an upset, I guess. She'd competed in kickboxing rules (granted amateur) in early 2000's. And MMA rules since 2011. As good as her boxing is, she's not just another single dimension fighter trying to make the cross-over. She stuff 2 takedowns, got one of her own, prevented an arm bar, and used her clinch work to nullify Rousey's.

    At any rate, this wasn't some boxer beating up a grappler. Rousey got in a few decent shots herself. But Holm demonstrated aptitude in all phases. The fight took its noticeable sway towards Holm after she nullified Rousey's armbar at 2:30 into the 1st. That was the point 1) Rousey began letting her hands get way too low and 2) Holm started striking without concern for Rousey's ground game and started really drilling the left down the barrel. And with all the talk of Holm's boxing, I think that last bit is the real difference. No one we have seen until now has been fighting without being paranoid of Rousey's armbar. Credit to her coaches, because it paid off.

    Anyways, I don't think Rousey wanted it. She's been making excuses about wanting to retire for a bit now. I doubt any rematch will be too soon. She's wanting a break. And I'd think she'll have to be considering a change in her camp before trying to reclaim her title.

    She didn't just "compete in amateure kickboxing", she was a high ranking pro boxer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Holm

    Professional boxing career
    Holm has held several welterweight boxing titles,[8] been highly regarded as one of the best female welterweights in the world, and is considered among the best of all time, by some.[9][10] She also has been named Ring Magazine female Fighter of the Year, twice in consecutive years in 2005 and 2006. She is a big draw in her home town of Albuquerque, having all but 3 of her fights there and just one of her fights outside of her home state of New Mexico.

    In June 2008 she became the undisputed welterweight champion and holder of belts from 140 to 154 by defeating former champ Mary Jo Sanders by decision. They fought a rematch on October 17, 2008, at the Palace of Auburn Hills in suburban Detroit, which ended in a draw.[11]

    On December 2, 2011, Holm took on knockout artist Anne Sophie Mathis of France for the vacant IBF female and WBAN welterweight titles. Holm was badly beaten by the stronger Mathis without the referee interfering, even going into the canvas without a count. She finally lost by knockout in the 7th round, which would be dubbed the upset of the year in women's boxing.[12] The two rematched on June 15, 2012 for Mathis's WBF female, IBF female, and WBAN welterweight titles. Holm took a unanimous decision win over Mathis, becoming the new champion and avenging her earlier KO loss.[13]

    Quite simply, Holly was underestimated by the Rousey camp and Ronda spend more time marketing herself than training seriously.

    Holly fought Ronda the way fight experts have been saying she needs to be fought to beat her.
    Psalms 144:1
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    She didn't just "compete in amateure kickboxing", she was a high ranking pro boxer:
    You're talking passed me. That was my point...just from the opposite end. I'm familiar with Holm's background. Everyone is talking about how a boxer just proved boxing > all. She's not a boxer. She's not a kickboxer. She has a core that's supremely developed. But she showed she's got skills in all ranges. She's spent the last half a decade developing for MMA and she just showed she's a complete fighter.

  3. #18
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    Holy Cats! sanjuro_ronin is TAZZ!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Of course the conspiracy nut in me can also say that this was exactly what the UFC women's division needed, coincidentally...


    The Wild Conspiracy Theory Behind the Ronda Rousey-Holly Holm Fight
    If this is true, it's a huge deal.
    ENTERTAINMENT November 17, 2015 By ADAM K. RAYMOND

    Three days after Ronda Rousey’s second round knockout at the hands of Holy Holm, some MMA fans are still trying to come to terms with her defeat. And one, former WWE wrestler and commentator has cooked up a conspiracy theory to explain it.

    At the center of the argument floated by former WWE star Taz on his CBS Radio show is the break from fighting Rousey announced just a few days before facing down Holm at UFC 193. With movies to film and lots of money to spend, Rousey told Rolling Stone she was hoping to stay away from fighting until UFC 200. That’s why Taz thinks the Rousey-Holm match was fixed:

    Why are some people not seeing this? This has been done in the wrestling industry for years. A guy or girl is going to take a break or go away, or has an injury that they have to tend to, whatever the reasons are, and they're a champion—you take the championship off of them. You do not want your champion sitting home or making a movie, 'Roadhouse 2' or whatever Rousey's going to do, or just needs a personal break, which she's earned. This girl's earned it. But you don't want that person sitting home for five, six, seven months with that championship. It's bad for business! Take the belt off her!

    Taz, with his knowledge of the inner workings of professional fighting, certainly has a point. It’s certainly in UFC boss Dana White’s interest to have a champion who’s not taking a sabbatical. It’s also in White’s interest to build up Rousey’s inevitable comeback as the opportunity to take back the belt from Holm in 2016.

    Still, calling the fight fixed is a pretty serious allegation. It challenges UFC's creditability and Rousey's integrity. It also totally ignores the reality of the fight: Rousey got absolutely dismantled by Holm with little more than a kick to the face. If the UFC wanted to fix the fight, wouldn’t it have made sense to do it so that Rousey wasn't embarrassed? Or maybe so she didn’t have to take a thunder kick to the head? Or schedule plastic surgery to repair damage to her lip after Holm's kick to the dome? If you’re going to fix a fight, there are ways to do it that don’t threaten your top draw with severe injury.

    Taz’s theory might be fun to consider, but it’s pretty much impossible to believe.
    sanjuro_ronin = TAZZ explains so much. For the real sanjuro_ronin, see below:



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  4. #19
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    sanjuro_ronin = TAZZ explains so much. For the real sanjuro_ronin, see below:




    The fight was a very good fight ,
    Rousey learned a great deal from this fight ,
    she will face it head on and improve the skills she needs to win in a rematch.
    . . A rematch will be an exciting event for both fighters . A rematch will draw a record amount of $.

    I certainly feel as this fight was not fixed, that would be a terrible low blow to MMA and all involved.

    Great thoughtS from everyone about this fight.

    thank you
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    You're talking passed me. That was my point...just from the opposite end. I'm familiar with Holm's background. Everyone is talking about how a boxer just proved boxing > all. She's not a boxer. She's not a kickboxer. She has a core that's supremely developed. But she showed she's got skills in all ranges. She's spent the last half a decade developing for MMA and she just showed she's a complete fighter.
    Ah, understood.
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  6. #21
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    Regarding Taz's theory:

    I really do not think the fight was fixed. If it were, I seriously doubt that being embarrassed, outfought and then taking a full-force round kick to the side of the neck is something that Ronda would have agreed to. Also, if it were to take a break to star in movies, how would losing in such a manner help her screen image in any way?

    Whenever someone who seems 'unbeatable' is finally beaten, there are always pundits who crawl out of the woodwork and scream "fix". Either that, or they say the reason he/she was beaten was due to some kind of turmoil that's been going on in his/her life, etc. That's terribly disrespectful to Holly Holm and to any other fighter who has pulled off 'the impossible win'. It's also disrespectful to Ronda, IMO.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-18-2015 at 08:33 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Regarding Taz's theory:

    I really do not think the fight was fixed. If it were, I seriously doubt that being embarrassed, outfought and then taking a full-force round kick to the side of the neck is something that Ronda would have agreed to. Also, if it were to take a break to star in movies, how would losing in such a manner help her screen image in any way?

    Whenever someone who seems 'unbeatable' is finally beaten, there are always pundits who crawl out of the woodwork and scream "fix". Either that, or they say the reason he/she was beaten was due to some kind of turmoil that's been going on in his/her life, etc. That's terribly disrespectful to Holly Holm and to any other fighter who has pulled off 'the impossible win'. It's also disrespectful to Ronda, IMO.
    Agreed, there was no fix.
    The only ones that saw her as "unbeatable" where the nutriders and fanboys.
    Those with experience saw the gaps and all that was needed was someone with enough skill to take advantage.
    And Holly beat her exactly how Ronda would be beaten.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #23
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    I don't think it was fixed either.

    It was a good fight. I'm struck by the absurd reactions and memes I've been reading on facebook. So much disrespect to Ronda. I don't remember so much dissing when boxing was king. What has MMA done to fight fans? Maybe it's just social media that has made everyone shallow.

    I still think sanjuro_ronin is Tazz tho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    It was a good fight. I'm struck by the absurd reactions and memes I've been reading on facebook. So much disrespect to Ronda. I don't remember so much dissing when boxing was king. What has MMA done to fight fans? Maybe it's just social media that has made everyone shallow.

    I still think sanjuro_ronin is Tazz tho.
    I am to svelt to be Tazz

    What has MMA done to fight fans?
    Nothing really, it is simply that the UFC has marketed itself to those kind of fans, too those that follow/ed WWE, to those that believe fighters fight for THEIR entertainment, marketd to those that don't understand that fighters do NOT, SHOULD NOT debase themselves by "selling" their fights.
    I don't know what percentage of MMA fans actually train in a MA but those that do, I often wonder what "core values" they have gotten from their MA, what "wude" or what "bushido" values they have.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #25
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    Meh...UFC brass have already shown they don't need an active champion to keep the division going. They just set up an interim championship fight and use it to drum up an overhyped "reunification" bout down the road.

  11. #26
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    MMA has always had an element of dirt in the fanbase. It comes with its history. There has been an influx of the "WWE" crowd in recent years. But I think it has as much to do with these guys trying to jump ship and make a run in MMA. Lesnar proved legit and now half the group seems to think they can pull it off. When CM Punk or whatever his name is stutters and fades off, I expect that cash cow (and UFC's opportunistic marketing) to go with it. I think we'll already see it a bit now that Rousey likely won't have the same marketing appeal on the WWE side of things. I could be wrong though, hadn't Shamrock been mixed up in the entertainment business for a good while now?

  12. #27
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    WWE is clearly an influential factor

    The cage really descends from pro wrasslin and with it comes that same fan base. I suppose most pro sports fans are similar - Football, Baseball, Soccer (on the international level) - they all have drunken idiots. Maybe I'm remembering boxing fans with rose-tinted glasses. Honestly, I've never been to a pro boxing match, so I can't say.

    And the internet is very much to blame. I see so much idiocy on the social media - that dwarfs the foolishness I see here on the forum, believe it or not. Adding fuel to this fire is the fact that MMA reporting is more web based. You don't really see that much of this in on TV news and it never makes the sports page in the newspaper. It's all about the web and anyone can post here. Only a few sites seem to have any sort of editorial savvy. Most are going for the most eyeball-catching headlines, and those are the most vitriol nowadays.

    It's just such a shame. I admire both Rousey and Holm. This was a good fight, a title match upset at its best. Why fans have to make it so pithy just denigrates the whole sport.


    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I am to svelt to be Tazz
    good comeback.
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  13. #28
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    The cage really descends from pro wrasslin and with it comes that same fan base. I suppose most pro sports fans are similar - Football, Baseball, Soccer (on the international level) - they all have drunken idiots. Maybe I'm remembering boxing fans with rose-tinted glasses. Honestly, I've never been to a pro boxing match, so I can't say.

    And the internet is very much to blame. I see so much idiocy on the social media - that dwarfs the foolishness I see here on the forum, believe it or not. Adding fuel to this fire is the fact that MMA reporting is more web based. You don't really see that much of this in on TV news and it never makes the sports page in the newspaper. It's all about the web and anyone can post here. Only a few sites seem to have any sort of editorial savvy. Most are going for the most eyeball-catching headlines, and those are the most vitriol nowadays.

    It's just such a shame. I admire both Rousey and Holm. This was a good fight, a title match upset at its best. Why fans have to make it so pithy just denigrates the whole sport.



    good comeback.
    I have been to many pro Boxing fights , I saw no drunken idiots at these fights. In my opinion Pro-Boxing was ( before Tyson got involved) a great sport . Boxing had always been in a league of it own .Boxing was and still is some serious stuff. Boxers are excellent fighters.

    I agree with everything else , the MMA is web based , there exits idiots everywhere , they have always been around , before the Internet they hid from public view, today they hide on the internet.

    It is indeed sad that the idiots don't realize what a great professional fight these 2 Lady's fought.
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  14. #29
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    I think the high number of idiot UFC/MMA fans who spew personal attacks is very much a generational thing. In general, MMA fans are a younger crowd than boxing fans. Their whole lives have been shaped by social media and saying or reading things online that would never be said to someone's face. Although lord knows there are plenty of older idiots as well, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that most of the online sniping is by people 25 and under who don't have lives.

    In past decades/generations, if you wanted to snipe at someone's character or achievements, there was a FAR greater risk of facing direct consequences. That's no longer the case. Now anyone can play keyboard bad@ss, but it's really just cowardly behavior by people with retarded social development, because they can't turn off their iPhones, iPods, or whatever, and live in the real world. Some of them even wear their cowardice with pride, as long as they can remain anonymous. But deep down it really eats them up inside to see others who are actually out there trying, risking, doing, accomplishing...and yes, sometimes even failing...at things they themselves lack the courage or the commitment to even attempt.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-19-2015 at 08:31 PM.

  15. #30
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    The walk of shame

    Poor Ronda. There's a video, but it's a hard watch.

    RONDA ROUSEY I'M ASHAMED OF MY FACE
    11/17/2015 8:05 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF
    EXCLUSIVE
    RONDA UNDERCOVER TMZSports.com

    Ronda Rousey doesn't want anyone to see the damage Holly Holm did to her face -- taking drastic measures to cover up as she arrived back in L.A. moments ago.
    Besides rocking a hood over her head, sunglasses on her eyes and draping her hair over her face ... Ronda also used a pillow to mask her mug as she walked through LAX.
    Ronda's boyfriend Travis Browne was with her ... but neither Ronda nor Travis were in the mood to talk.
    It's a pretty sad video ... Ronda like we've never seen her before.
    As we previously reported, Dana White told us Ronda was depressed and bummed out about the loss -- but vows to return to the UFC for a rematch.
    #GetWellSoon
    Quote Originally Posted by SIFU RON View Post
    I have been to many pro Boxing fights , I saw no drunken idiots at these fights.
    Now, I'm sure there were some. Any major sport attracts drunken idiots. I should qualify this by saying I've been to plenty of MMA fights (most of which I've documented here). I've not seen that many drunken idiots there, at least no more then you might see at a football or a baseball game. I have seen a few fights break out in the audience, but those were amateur MMA events. The professional events like UFC and formerly Strikeforce were all great spectator sports. Those people that actually come out to support the fights are of a better stock. Jimbo is closer to what I'm seeing - those keyboard bad@sses. When boxing was king, we didn't have the internet. Now, I barely hear anything about boxing on the internet unless it's a huge fight like Pacquiao vs Mayweather. Proportionally speaking, I's say there was the same amount of idiocy and disrespect for the fighters with web commentary I saw. It's just that Ronda is bigger than boxing now - heck, she was just on the cover of RING - when is Mayweather going to get the cover of an MMA mag? That's what I mean about proportion.
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