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Thread: Doctor Strange

  1. #16
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    Continued from previous post

    Sun: Which brings us to Ghost in the Shell and that first-look image of Scarlett Johansson this week. Ghost in the Shell (at least all previous iterations of it) also is set in Asia, albeit a very different one from that of Doctor Strange. There is no indication that the name of Johansson's protagonist has changed from the source material — IMDb still lists the character as "Kusanagi," although the press copy released alongside Thursday's image refers to her simply by her police rank, "the Major." That photo continues to send an ambiguous message — Johansson appears in a short black bob and darkened eyebrows, hewing closely to how Kusanagi is depicted in the comics.

    Traditionally, this is a fan's greatest hope — an adaptation as faithful to the source material as possible. But in this case, Paramount/DreamWorks seem to have retained all the markers of Kusanagi's Japanese identity — her name, her basic physical appearance — except for the actual ethnicity of her portrayer. Perhaps the whitewashing controversy wouldn't have gone quite as viral had the producers cleanly erased all traces of the material's origins, as Edge of Tomorrow did in adapting the Japanese novel All You Need Is Kill and anglicizing protagonist Keiji Kiriya into William Cage, played by Tom Cruise.

    McMillan: The comparison to the (lack of) outrage met with Edge of Tomorrow is an interesting one, but perhaps a more appropriate one is the response to the multiple attempts to make a live-action Akira with non-Asian actors — which is to say, any of the numerous American attempts to make a live-action Akira. Both Akira and Ghost in the Shell are better-known properties than All You Need Is Kill — which started life as a prose novel, which arguably also allowed for more visual/racial deviation as a result — and so any attempt to move away from the (to fans) iconic elements of the original are likely to be met with, at the very best, apathy or dismay. Add in the implied racism of casting only Caucasian actors, and you have something that seems utterly guaranteed to upset almost everyone.

    By far the strongest response I've seen to the Ghost in the Shell casting comes from indie comic writer Jon Tsuei on Twitter, where he argued that the story is "inherently a Japanese story, not a universal one" because of the context in which it was created, specifically the cultural relationship the country had with technology, and how that feeds into the characters' relationships with tech in the story.

    I'm not entirely sold on that line of thinking, I admit — in part because I think that the relationship with technology has become a universal thing in the decades since the original manga was published 27 years ago — but it touches on the degree to which the story is interconnected with the culture in which it first appeared. Watching filmmakers misunderstand that to such a degree as they appear to have in casting alone doesn't really offer much hope that they'll manage to handle the themes of the story with any greater sensitivity.

    Sun: The reaction to Johansson's Ghost in the Shell look reminds me of the backlash when the Nina Simone biopic starring Zoe Saldana was released last month. In both cases, the filmmakers went to some lengths to alter the appearance of their leading ladies, rather than cast actresses who more naturally matched the subjects. What makes these two examples different from the countless instances of actors transforming themselves for a role — Steve Carell in Foxcatcher, Nicole Kidman in The Hours — is that Asian women and dark-skinned black women rarely get to be the leads in Hollywood movies. So whitewashing any Asian character is unfortunate, but keeping the character Asian-ish (but not actually Asian) is salt on the wound.

    Many online commenters have trumpeted Oscar nominee Rinko Kikuchi as the ideal live-action Kusanagi — no one has come closer than her to doing it already, as robot pilot Mako Mori in Pacific Rim. Many other actresses of Asian descent have been mentioned as well, but the harsh truth is that their combined star wattage doesn't even come close to touching Johansson's.

    And therein lies the problem: A Kikuchi (who is four years older than Johansson) — or a similar Asian-American actress — couldn't have debuted as the daughter of John Ritter and Sean Connery, as Johansson did in her early films. She likely wouldn't have gotten her big break as an equestrian-loving teen in Montana opposite Robert Redford in The Horse Whisperer. (She might have made a good Rebecca in Ghost World.) She couldn't have effectively played an outsider in Tokyo in Lost in Transition, which catapulted her to stardom, or a Dutch painter's muse in Girl With a Pearl Earring, or Woody Allen's muse in Match Point, Scoop or Vicky Cristina Barcelona. She couldn't have played a London magician's assistant in The Prestige or Mary Boleyn in The Other Boleyn Girl. And most of all, she never, ever would have been cast as the Black Widow in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

    So how does an Asian actor become famous enough to play an Asian character? Judging by Speed Racer (starring Emile Hirsch), Dragonball Evolution (starring Shameless' Justin Chatwin), Ghost in the Shell and the upcoming Death Note (starring Nat Wolff), Hollywood has yet to answer the question.
    You'd think with the trend towards China, getting some Asian actors in the cast would be good global marketing.
    Gene Ching
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  2. #17
    Greetings,

    I noticed the date of that article. It was dated after my funk on this thread. The author either read it or was fed it. I gotta find a way to get paid for this. I may have to change my handle for increased recognition. Then I can go after the bucks.

    mickey

  3. #18
    Greetings,

    If the Marvel Universe is understood. There can be more than one Dr Strange. This was shared on another thread. Understanding the MU means that there is much money to be made.

    When it came to The Avengers, I never saw The Black Panther as belonging on that team. I never saw him as being in the same universe as them: just a superhero in a very different world. Yet, when understanding the MU, it is possible to have such a team up.

    mickey

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    When it came to The Avengers, I never saw The Black Panther as belonging on that team. I never saw him as being in the same universe as them: just a superhero in a very different world. Yet, when understanding the MU, it is possible to have such a team up.

    mickey
    The first time I ever saw The Black Panther was in a 1970 or '71 issue of Daredevil; it *might* have been his first comic appearance ever(?). As far as I knew, it was. And though Daredevil was never an Avenger, he definitely occupied the same Marvel Universe as The Avengers. In fact, DD was teamed/paired with The Black Widow for a time in the mid-1970s. So that puts The Black Panther in that same universe.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 04-19-2016 at 12:40 PM.

  5. #20
    Hi Jimbo.

    I did some checking around. The Black Panther first appeared in the Fantastic Four issue #52 in 1966.

    He appeared in Daredevil issue # 52 in 1969. I had this issue. It was so well written that the drawings seemed to move. I think that at that time, the Black Panther was the only person other than Starr Saxon who knew DD's true identity: The Black Panther learned this in this issue.

    mickey

  6. #21
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    Thanks, mickey. That 1969 issue might be what I was thinking about. I haven't looked at it since, but I *think* the Daredevil issue I was referencing (#52?) was drawn by Gene Colan(?), if my memory of the art style is accurate. I do remember at the end, DD offering to treat Black Panther to a Coke.

  7. #22
    Hi Jimbo,

    I have a link for you to see the cover. Check out the dialogue written for Starr Saxon at the top. By today's standards, it is amazingly good.

    http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Daredevil_Vol_1_52


    mickey

  8. #23
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    Thanks for the link, mickey. Agreed, much better quality than today. Then again, IMO, superhero comics during the 1960s and 70s were WAY better quality in all aspects than today's.

    I've found out which issue I was talking about. It's Daredevil Vol. 1, No. 69.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 04-19-2016 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #24
    Hi Jimbo,

    Never saw that one.

    mickey

  10. #25
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    More grist

    The complaint grows: first Ghost, then Dr. Strange, and now Power Rangers.

    OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
    Why Won’t Hollywood Cast Asian Actors?


    DADU SHIN
    By KEITH CHOW
    APRIL 22, 2016
    HERE’S an understatement: It isn’t easy being an Asian-American actor in Hollywood. Despite some progress made on the small screen — thanks, “Fresh Off the Boat”! — a majority of roles that are offered to Asian-Americans are limited to stereotypes that wouldn’t look out of place in an ’80s John Hughes comedy.

    This problem is even worse when roles that originated as Asian characters end up going to white actors. Unfortunately, these casting decisions are not a relic of Hollywood’s past, like Mickey Rooney’s portrayal of I. Y. Yunioshi in “Breakfast at Tiffany’s,” but continue right up to the present.

    Last week Disney and Marvel Studios released the trailer for “Doctor Strange,” an adaptation of the Marvel comic. After exhausting every “white man finds enlightenment in the Orient” trope in less than two minutes, the trailer presents Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One, a Tibetan male mystic in the comics. Though her casting was no secret, there was something unsettling about the sight of Ms. Swinton’s clean-shaven head and “mystical” Asian garments. It recalled jarring memories of David Carradine from “Kung Fu,” the 1970s television series that, coincidentally, was itself a whitewashed version of a Bruce Lee concept.

    A few days later, DreamWorks and Paramount provided a glimpse of Scarlett Johansson as the cyborg Motoko Kusanagi in their adaptation of the Japanese anime classic “Ghost in the Shell.” The image coincided with reports that producers considered using digital tools to make Ms. Johansson look more Asian — basically, yellowface for the digital age.

    This one-two punch of white actors playing Asian characters showed how invisible Asian-Americans continue to be in Hollywood. (Not to be left out of the whitewashing news, Lionsgate also revealed the first images of Elizabeth Banks as Rita Repulsa, another originally Asian character, in its gritty “Power Rangers” reboot.)


    Slide Show | Whitewashing, a Long History White actors playing Asian characters demonstrate how invisible Asian-Americans continue to be in Hollywood.

    Why is the erasure of Asians still an acceptable practice in Hollywood? It’s not that people don’t notice: Just last year, Emma Stone played a Chinese-Hawaiian character named Allison Ng in Cameron Crowe’s critically derided “Aloha.” While that film incited similar outrage (and tepid box office interest), no national conversation about racist casting policies took place.

    Obviously, Asian-Americans are not the only victims of Hollywood’s continuing penchant for whitewashing. Films like “Pan” and “The Lone Ranger” featured white actors playing Native Americans, while “Gods of Egypt” and “Exodus: Gods and Kings” continue the long tradition of Caucasians playing Egyptians.

    In all these cases, the filmmakers fall back on the same tired arguments. Often, they insist that movies with minorities in lead roles are gambles. When doing press for “Exodus,” the director Ridley Scott said: “I can’t mount a film of this budget" and announce that “my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such.”

    When the screenwriter Max Landis took to YouTube to explain the “Ghost in the Shell” casting, he used a similar argument. “There are no A-list female Asian celebrities right now on an international level,” he said, admonishing viewers for “not understanding how the industry works.”

    Mr. Landis’s argument closely tracks a statement by the screenwriter Aaron Sorkin. In a leaked email exchange with studio heads, he complained about the difficulty of adapting “Flash Boys,” Michael Lewis’s book about the Wall Street executive Bradley Katsuyama, because “there aren’t any Asian movie stars.”

    Hollywood seems untroubled by these arguments. It’s not about race, they say; the only color they see is green: The reason Asian-American actors are not cast to front these films is because not any of them have a box office track record.

    But they’re wrong. If minorities are box office risks, what accounts for the success of the “Fast and Furious” franchise, which presented a broadly diverse team, behind and in front of the camera? Over seven movies it has grossed nearly $4 billion worldwide. In fact, a recent study by the Ralph J. Bunche Center for African American Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles, found that films with diverse leads not only resulted in higher box office numbers but also higher returns of investment for studios and producers.

    And Hollywood’s argument is circular: If Asian-Americans — and other minority actors more broadly — are not even allowed to be in a movie, how can they build the necessary box office clout in the first place? To make matters worse, instead of trying to use their lofty positions in the industry to push for change, Hollywood players like Mr. Landis and Mr. Sorkin take the easy, cynical path.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  11. #26
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    An explanation from the filmmakers.

    ‘Doctor Strange’ Writer Explains Casting of Tilda Swinton as Tibetan
    Sinosphere
    By EDWARD WONG APRIL 26, 2016


    Tilda Swinton, at the Berlin International Film Festival on Feb. 11. Some have questioned her casting as the Ancient One in “Doctor Strange.” Credit Michael Kappeler/European Pressphoto Agency

    BEIJING — The trailer for “Doctor Strange” from Marvel Studios has ignited outrage against what some people call another example of Hollywood’s racist casting. It reveals that a Tibetan character from the comic book, the Ancient One, is played by Tilda Swinton, a white British actress.

    It turns out that the filmmakers wanted to avoid the Tibetan origins of the character altogether, in large part over fears of offending the Chinese government and people — and of losing access to one of the world’s most lucrative film markets, according to one insider account.

    In an interview last week, C. Robert Cargill, the main screenwriter, offered that as an explanation for why the Ancient One was no longer Tibetan.

    The Tibetan issue is one of the thorniest involving China and other nations. The Chinese Communist Party and its army occupied Tibet in 1951, and Chinese leaders are well aware that many non-Chinese believe that Tibet should have independence or greater autonomy.

    Marvel said in a statement that there was no problem with the casting of Ms. Swinton as the Ancient One since the character was written as a Celt in the film and is not Asian at all. Some critics have said that studio executives and filmmakers must have assumed Asian actors had less drawing power than white actors.

    In an interview on the pop culture show “Double Toasted,” Mr. Cargill said the decision to rid the character of its Tibetan roots was made by others working on the project, including the director, Scott Derrickson. It came down to anxieties over losing the China market, he said, if the portrayal of the Ancient One ended up stirring political sensitivities in China.

    In response to an angry viewer’s question about the casting of Ms. Swinton, Mr. Cargill said: “The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people.”

    He added that there was the risk of “the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political.’ ”

    Earlier in the interview, Mr. Cargill had acknowledged that the origin story of Dr. Strange in old Marvel comics does involve Tibet, and that his mentor was Tibetan. “He goes to a place in Tibet, the Ancient One teaches him magic, he becomes a sorcerer, then later he becomes the Sorcerer Supreme,” Mr. Cargill said.

    The Chinese box office is the world’s second biggest, behind the United States, and Hollywood executives often alter films to avoid offending Chinese officials and to help their movies get shown in China. The Chinese government sets a strict limit on the number of foreign films shown in cinemas each year.

    Mr. Cargill’s take on how Chinese officials and moviegoers might react to a Tibetan character was overly simplistic, though. The government and many Chinese people do not deny the existence of the cultural idea of Tibet or Tibetans. They just assert that China should rule the territory.

    Mr. Cargill also said that because the original character of the Ancient One was a racist stereotype, the role would be hard to pull off with modern sensibilities. He added that if a Tibetan had been cast, it would result in the stereotypical narrative of a white hero, Dr. Stephen Strange, played by Benedict Cumberbatch, being indoctrinated into Eastern mysticism.

    From the trailer, the film appears to retain some of the origin story’s Tibetan Buddhist flavor. There are shots of temples in what seems to be the Kathmandu Valley of Nepal. At one point, Mr. Cumberbatch’s hand turns Tibetan prayer wheels. Ms. Swinton’s character, though Celtic, appears to be training Dr. Strange in Nepal.

    Mr. Cargill said some critics had suggested the filmmakers could have cast Michelle Yeoh as the Ancient One. Ms. Yeoh is an ethnic Chinese actress from Malaysia who is a martial arts icon and starred in “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.”

    “If you are telling me you think it’s a good idea to cast a Chinese actress as a Tibetan character, you are out of your **** fool mind,” Mr. Cargill said.

    Mr. Cargill also drew a parallel, saying that the only thornier situation he could envision was if Dr. Strange’s origin story had involved him going to Palestine in the 1930s and studying under a Palestinian mentor.

    The Ancient One was a character who had “fallen into a weird place,” he said. “There’s a really, really ugly piece of history that we wish there was an easy solution to, and there wasn’t one.”

    Mr. Cargill said Mr. Derrickson, the director, hoped that changing the gender would help offset bad choices that had to be made.

    Mr. Derrickson, he said, reasoned that “there’s no real way to win this, so let’s use this as an opportunity to cast an amazing actress in a male role.”

    “And sure enough, there’s not a lot of talk about, ‘Oh man, they took away the job from a guy and gave it to a woman.’ Everybody kind of decides to pat us on the back for that and then decides to scold us for her not being Tibetan.”

    Ms. Swinton, in an interview with Den of Geek, confirmed that the change to the character had been made early in the process.

    “The script that I was presented with did not feature an Asian man for me to play, so that was never a question when I was being asked to do it,” she said.

    A Marvel press officer issued a statement defending the casting, saying that “Marvel has a very strong record of diversity in its casting of films and regularly departs from stereotypes and source material.”

    “The Ancient One is a title that is not exclusively held by any one character, but rather a moniker passed down through time, and in this particular film the embodiment is Celtic,” the company said. “We are very proud to have the enormously talented Tilda Swinton portray this unique and complex character alongside our richly diverse cast.”

    Mr. Cargill had a more sober take in the interview on “Double Toasted.” He likened the cultural issue involving the Ancient One to the Kobayashi Maru, a famous battle simulation game in the “Star Trek” universe that Starfleet Academy cadets must play during training. The game had been programmed so that all choices would lead to a loss.

    “I could tell you why every single decision that involves the Ancient One is a bad one, and just like the Kobayashi Maru, it all comes down on which way you’re willing to lose,” Mr. Cargill said.

    He neglected to mention the fact that James T. Kirk, one of the main heroes of “Star Trek,” famously did beat the game with an unorthodox gambit.
    Actually, this is a reasonable argument. That China market is huge and the role of a Tibetan would make it difficult.

    Then again, they could have just relocated the Ancient One to Wudang or Songshan or any number of Chinese mystic mountains....
    Gene Ching
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  12. #27
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    They should have set in Hua Shan.
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  13. #28
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    This is getting kinda funny to me now...

    The disregard of the China market is getting twisted up by the ignorant. Some critics are accusing Hollywood of bowing to PRC censors, but that demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of the global film market and how films get approved in China. Censorship is a knee-jerk word here in the U.S. where it freedom of speech is a thing. But in China, that's not a thing, not at all.

    Here's feedback from a Tibetan:
    Hollywood’s Latest Whitewash: What Doctor Strange's Casting of Tilda Swinton Means
    By Gelek Badheytsang
    April 27, 2016


    Still via 'Doctor Strange'

    If you're not white, chances are when you're watching a movie or a TV series, you'll catch yourself on the lookout for anyone who's not white.

    It's a very minor event, this trying to find someone who looks like you onscreen, and most of us probably do it unconsciously.

    That Hollywood has blind spots when it comes to race and race-based issues is not a groundbreaking revelation. Its audience, increasingly non-white and vocal, are challenging the films and their filmmakers about this gap when it comes to who is shown on-screen and who isn't.

    It's in this context that we find Doctor Strange. Screenwriter C. Robert Cargill, in a fit of exasperation and indignation, responded to criticisms recently that his movie committed the age-old Hollywood tradition of whitewashing by casting Tilda Swinton in the role of the Ancient One. In the Marvel comic book lore, the Ancient One was based on a Tibetan mystical master. He guides the titular hero (portrayed onscreen by Benedict Cumberbatch) in his journey from a brilliant but ordinary surgeon, to a brilliant and powerful superhero; cloaked and ready to join the pantheon of Marvel characters, and the next instalment of the money-printing enterprise that is the Avengers series.



    As Cargill explains it, the decision to cast Swinton was not done lightly. "The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place," he says in a video interview posted on YouTube. "He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he's Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that's bull****."
    The one billion people that Cargill is referring to are the Chinese people. He continues:

    "[You] risk the Chinese government going, 'Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We're not going to show your movie because you decided to get political.'"

    He ends this matter by saying that anyone who proposes casting a Chinese actor in this role as a workaround is "out of [their] **** fool mind and have no idea what the **** [they're] talking about."

    Cargill is referring to some comments online that suggested the movie could have cast Michelle Yeoh, who is Chinese-Malaysian, instead of Tilda Swinton.


    Tilda Swinton as "the Ancient One"—bald, but still not Tibetan.

    Many Tibetans, like myself, remember the time when Kundun, a film by Martin Scorsese about the Dalai Lama's escape from Tibet to India, first came out. Scorsese and many of his colleagues were subsequently banned from entering China. That was almost 20 years ago. Disney at the time stood by its project, even in the face of harsh retribution from the Chinese government. In the intervening years, the Chinese market for Hollywood films has grown exponentially.

    The demands of "one billion people" outstrip those who number far fewer than 10 million. This is basic economics.

    But let me tell you how thrilling it was to see Kundun as a Tibetan. When the movie was screened in theatres in Nepal and India (where there is historically, and still remains, the largest influx of Tibetan refugees) grown men wept and old women prostrated to the image of their spiritual leader on aisles between the seats.

    I was around 12 years old at the time in Nepal, and even though I was mostly preoccupied by Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and WWE (WWF then), I remember vividly how big of a deal it was that this movie was coming out. Scorsese became a kind of a hero, even though I knew next to nothing at the time about one of the greatest living filmmakers.

    There was that undeniable magic of cinema—when a character looms larger than life onscreen, against the backdrop of the expansive Tibetan landscape (by way of Morocco)—that swells your heart and transposes you from inside that packed auditorium to the mountains of Tibet, alongside the Dalai Lama, kicking ass, being kind, crying over the loss of loved ones, and just being human.


    Still from the movie 'Kundun' (1997) featuring: actual Tibetans as Tibetan monks

    There is no amount of dollars or marketing strategy that will quite capture that sense of seeing yourself, or someone like you, projected and humanized on a giant theatre screen. We knew then that in spite of what the mighty Chinese government wanted (the elision of all things Dalai Lama and Tibetan), a short, plucky Italian-American director from the Bronx gave them the finger and realized his vision.

    Cargill, it seems, has thrown up his hands. Even though he could doubtless imagine and write pages upon pages of heroic, magical feats for Doctor Strange, on the matter of casting a Tibetan actor, that well is nigh empty. Sorry, but not sorry, because dollars. At least he was honest about it.

    The very fact of my existence is a sore point for the Chinese government. Cargill and his ilk would like you to believe that their hands are tied on this matter, but I don't buy it. Their influence over our (and the Chinese audience's) decision to buy tickets to their shows extends beyond just cold hard economics. There is something to be said for doing it the right way. For imagining a world (or at least an America) where, for once, the white skin is not the default, neutral canvas.

    In the age of #OscarsSoWhite, Cargill's decision (and his white, male background) is political. Of the panoply of controversies to navigate and confront, he chooses a route that inconveniences him the least.

    It's also a bit rich hearing Cargill speak about how he and his team had to carefully, painfully, consider not casting Asians so as to not reaffirm past stereotypes. That consideration falls flat when Hollywood keeps pumping out movies that showcase white dudes in white saviour roles (see: The Legend of Tarzan, coming to a screen near you later this summer).

    For what it's worth, between a white actor and a non-Tibetan but Asian-American actor playing the role of the Ancient One, my vote (and dollars) will easily go for the latter. In an industry where it's already hard enough to find roles beyond just extras in the background, here is a character tailor-made for an Asian American actor to shine in. And it goes to Tilda Swinton.

    Oh well. I continue to be on the lookout for faces like me. Somewhere in Toronto or Los Angeles, there is a Tibetan kid dreaming to be the next Denzel Washington or Tilda Swinton. I hope she gets a fair shake.

    Follow Gelek Badheytsang on Twitter.
    Gene Ching
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  14. #29
    Greetings,

    The article by Gelek Badheytsang is a very good one. He summed it up very well.

    The director really should have pursued guidance on this matter because there was definitely a middle way to be pursued. If I could find it in just a split second, the director could have been guided to it just as easily.

    mickey

  15. #30
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    Doctor Strange Official Trailer 2

    Gene Ching
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