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Thread: Oriental is ornamental

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Otis and the model minority

    03/13/2018 07:55 am ET Updated 2 hours ago
    Trump Sentencing Appointee Held Up ‘Orientals’ As Model Minority
    William Otis argued in 2013 that individuals of Asian descent “stay out of jail more than whites or blacks” because of their values.
    By Kimberly Yam

    William Otis on C-SPAN in 2014.

    William Otis, adjunct professor at Georgetown Law School and former member of the Bush administration, was announced as one of President Donald Trump’s nominees for the U.S. Sentencing Commission — a bipartisan agency that dictates federal sentencing guidelines — earlier this month. Since then, critics have pointed to Otis’ history of making “racially charged” comments online as a reason to question his fitness for the job.

    In a 2013 post he wrote for blog Crime and Consequences, Otis indicated he agreed with a judge’s remarks that “blacks and Hispanics are more violent than whites.” In a follow-up comment, he maintained that racial disparity in the prison system was not due to systemic racism, but “making choices.” Otis held up Asian individuals to bolster his argument, using the derogatory term “Orientals.”

    “The reason Orientals stay out of jail more than either whites or blacks,” he wrote, “is that family life, work, education and tradition are honored more in Oriental culture than in others.”

    Among the problematic views on display in Otis’ argument, his last comment perpetuates a false representation of Asian-Americans as “model minorities.”

    Aarti Kohli, executive director of Advancing Justice - Asian Law Caucus, told HuffPost in an email that Otis’ comments essentially paint a broad picture of the Asian-American community, ignoring the complexities within the minority group.

    While little data exists on the Asian-American prison population, the research available shows that it has not been exempt from contact with the criminal justice system.

    “In the California prison system, APIs [Asian-Pacific Islanders] are officially categorized as ‘Others,’ a fitting description for a population so often overlooked,” Kohli said. “There is plenty of evidence that shows that the criminal justice system is a form of social control [that] is biased against people of color.”

    In the 1990s, the Asian-American and Pacific Islander community saw its prisoner population balloon, increasing by 250 percent. A significant portion of these Asian-Americans came from refugee groups who fled from Southeast Asia following the Vietnam War ― a fact that was particularly evident in areas with high concentrations of this group. Laotian and Vietnamese individuals, for example, were among the top four most arrested groups in 1990 in the San Francisco Bay Area.

    Kohli noted that the Trump appointee’s comments allude to the “good immigrant” and “perpetual foreigner” stereotypes, denying Asian-Americans of their “Americanness.”

    John C. Yang, president and executive director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice - AAJC, said that Otis’ comments pit racial minorities against each other.

    “Otis’ statement is racist because it stereotypes and suggests others do not value family, work and education,” he told HuffPost.

    Otis told HuffPost in an email that he is “honored to have been selected by the President for this nomination” but declined to comment on criticisms regarding his previous comments.

    Yang also added that Otis’ use of the term “Oriental,” — which former President Barack Obama had formally removed from federal law in 2016 — speaks volumes.

    Ultimately, such beliefs would impede Otis’ ability to effectively serve on the commission, Yang said.

    “Someone who holds such biases and predispositions should not be allowed to hold an important position on the U.S. Sentencing Commission, which requires that criminal sentences be determined based on facts and evidence, not prejudices and biases,” he said.
    As an 'oriental', I ado not consider myself part of the model minority. I am part of the supermodel minority.
    'Cause I'm a model, you know what I mean
    And I do my little turn on the catwalk
    Yeah, on the catwalk
    On the catwalk, yeah
    I shake my little tush on the catwalk

    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  2. #17

    The Price of Successs

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    As an 'oriental', I ado not consider myself part of the model minority. I am part of the supermodel minority.

    Otis and the model minority
    The whole article about Otis is Identity Politics on Steroids and LSD - typical Marxist nonsense.

    There is no racism in any of Otis's comments, he just stated cold facts in cold non PC language, The article does have racism in it though where the author tries to incite Racial conflict
    "“In the California prison system, APIs [Asian-Pacific Islanders] are officially categorized as ‘Others,’ a fitting description for a population so often overlooked,” Kohli said. “There is plenty of evidence that shows that the criminal justice system is a form of social control [that] is biased against people of color.”"
    An unproven, untrue and unsupported statement that is merely there to incite racism against whites.

    If people have to be "educated" or see movies or have this article tell them that the term "oriental" is derogatory then that is unnatural and is political indoctrination. Oriental is or was a lovely word with lovely connotations and associations. Leave it to the Marxists to blacken the poetry of words. I do get that to the Progressive Leftist Bubble it is now counter-revolutionary - I apparently missed this important piece of "Re-Education".
    And I note from the original post, contrary to what this article implies, it was supposed to be taken out of the legislation not because it was a slur but because it was not technically correct - at least that was the excuse,, but then again Obama was waging war on American culture by making words politically incorrect and encouraging identity politics.

    All of the arguments in the article are illogical making false assumptions and twisting the meanings of words. They are experts at this kind of irrationality, it's too much to debunk blow by blow. It should be just understood that anything that uses or results in political correctness is by it's very nature a false arguemnt. Political correctness is merely a tool of social oppression.
    It all ends up "feels" versus "facts" and the feels are used to obliterate in the conscious awareness of what the actual facts are. EG there are good reasons why the majority of blacks and Hispanics in America are more violent than whites ie Democratic Party policies and with regards to both groups.

    There must be equality of outcome comrades, everyone must be equally poor. The party does not believe in success.

    In the Progressive Leftist Oppression Hierarchy apparently the French Chinese Community have not made themselves oppressed enough. somehow the stereotype of "good immigrant" has denied them their "Frenchness" C'est Vrai!

    Migrants at WAR: Tensions in Paris as children attacked with knives for being 'too rich'
    GANGS of North African youths have terrified Chinese migrants amid complaints they have become 'too rich'.

    The streets of Paris have erupted into inter-migrant strife as North African youths have targeted 'rich' Chinese migrants amid growing tensions.
    Police in France recorded more than 200 attacks on Chinese immigrants last year, mostly from hostile migrant gangs. This comes amid a growing perception that recent migrants from North Africa have become "too demanding" and consider themselves "victims" who deserve pity.

    Contrary to this, the long-standing Chinese community in Paris has gained a reputation for being "hard-working and managing without taxpayer help".

    In a report from German channel DW, a Chinese migrant named Woo described how a gang of North African youths attacked him in his home last November.He said that the yobs threatened him and his wife with a knife and smashed his head, after which broke in and stole his valuables. He added: "I am scared. I don’t feel safe anymore."

    Yvon Sun, who works as a liaison for the Chinese community in Paris, echoed these remarks and said among a rise of recent assaults, a gang of African migrants had robbed a pair of young children under 10 years old and threatened them with a knife.

    In August last year, a Chinese man was killed in the Paris suburb of Aubervilliers after being attacked during a botched robbery.While the crime rate grows, local migrants from North Africa have been unafraid to voice their prejudices.
    One told the programme: "That’s the way it is. I don’t like the Chinese."

    Another added: "The Chinese have become too rich in France. That’s not fair. They have nice clothes and big cars."

    Despite this visible hostility, police have largely refused to intervene while locals have complained that security services rarely investigate many of the crimes.
    (Because "Diversity is their Strength"?)

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    Picture Cutline: The Chinese community has gained a reputation for being "hard-working and managing without help

    Guylain Chevrier, a French sociologist, said the pattern quickly emerged following the refugee wave last year. He said: "The Chinese community is thought to be a community where things go well, where people manage on their own. "This is compared to other immigrants who are much more demanding and consider themselves as victims."
    Mr Chevrier added that authorities often took an extremely "passive attitude" toward anything going on within "Muslim communities".

    Vice Magazine has this article trying to incite the Asian "Model Minority" into racism against whites and create social unrest. It's written by a Marxist American University professor (most of them declare themselves as such). Herein lie the perils of identity politics, they will use you and always turn on you.
    "Never Trust a Liberal (Marxist) over Three"
    As we can see comrades, success is counter-revolutionary!!!

    How Asian Americans Contribute to White Supremacy
    Asian Americans, the popular conception goes, don't protest. But by not doing so, we are contributing to white supremacy.
    Asian Americans need to get more involved in the fight against disempowerment. Our disempowerment is not free or protected from the disempowerment of black lives—the link is white supremacy and our empowerment won't come by meeting white supremacy's demands. We must stand with the larger civil rights community that has fought for many of the rights we enjoy in the first place. Participation is mandatory
    Mandatory... now that's real empowerment...
    Last edited by wolfen; 03-14-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Watched this yesterday....

    What do you think?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  4. #19

    Murder of the Oriental Express

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    For decades, whenever I heard 'oriental', I thought of that stereotyped *****y music that was most likely thought up by Western composers, probably sometime in the '60s. If you're wondering which music I'm talking about, it's what the opening nine notes of the song "Turning Japanese" is inspired by (BTW, I always hated that song). You know, "Do-do-do-do-do-do, do-do-doooo..."
    It's called the Oriental Riff

    The Oriental riff is a Western invention, dating back to the "Aladdin Quick Step" used in an Aladdin stage show, The Grand Chinese Spectacle of Aladdin or The Wonderful Lamp, in 1847. The notes used in the riff are part of a pentatonic scale, which makes the riff sound like East Asian music to a typical Western listener.

    “‘Oriental’ is derogatory because it objectifies Asian-Americans, as if we were rugs,” Mee Moua, Director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, told HuffPost. “Plus, the term is weirdly directional. It makes ‘The Orient’ into this foreign, exotic place, but it’s only ‘far away’ if you’re from the West. That’s pretty alienating.
    Yeah that's right! I always thought "The Oriental Express" was carrying rugs..or going to the place where people were rugs.. "Murder on the Rug Factory" yes a famous film.... Yeah right, and "Westerners" is weirdly directional also, that must be really alienating for the Chinese. Perhaps Xi JinPing can do a crackdown on that use of language.

    Mee Moua - probably the qualifications to be director of the AAAJ are that she must be an escapee from a lunatic asylum..either that or a Registered Democrat.
    Last edited by wolfen; 03-14-2018 at 02:37 PM.

  5. #20

    The Ugly Foreigner

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Watched this yesterday....

    What do you think?
    天不怕,地不怕. 但是外国人在中国,有怕. (My general sentiment meeting other foreigners in China)

    Video Summary of 5 Things CHINESE people CAN'T STAND about Foreigners!

    1 arrogant, ethnocentric, including reverse racism
    2 culturally ignorant Chinese face and place (staying put) versus Western openness and space (roaming)
    3 overtly sexual & promiscuous (in some ways, keyword being overtly)
    4. spendthrifts Chinese tightfisted versus spending money like water
    5. druggies - yeah far too many of them

    And from Hostels - Germans have the reputation for being the rudest/crudest and Japanese for thinking they are Ichiban.

    Things Chinese People say to annoy Foreigners

    Hilariously True!
    Last edited by wolfen; 03-14-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Great Lakes State, U.S.A.
    Why do 'folks' keep referring to EuroAmericans as "white people"? So devoid of pigment.

  7. #22

    It's OK to be White...maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmStriker View Post
    Why do 'folks' keep referring to EuroAmericans as "white people"? So devoid of pigment.
    Don't worry, It's Okay to be white.

    Pleasant song here.

    But you know it it's not OK to be white at the Hollywood Oscars, Saskatchewan, most American Universities, most of California, large parts of Europe and Canada, CNN, MSN ..'s a long long list .
    There are many places where not being white is our strength.
    Last edited by wolfen; 03-16-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  8. #23

    Marxist Etymology

    Johnny Wu notes that in Europe and Asia where people haven't been subjected to Marxist Indoctrination the term "Oriental" is used all the time, perfectly normal - not a slur.
    But here now - Oriental Rugs ----- ..GOOD, Oriental people BAAAD!
    Repeat until brainwashed.
    But even so anything with the word "Oriental " in it like restaurants , old books, noodles will probably get persecuted

    It's an interesting tactic by the left - once the word is proscribed through the use of being outraged, being offended and grievance politics then if you used it 10 years before that, then you are a Nazi racist.
    Proof Positive!
    It's not a natural development of language.
    And that is never the end of it..after a while AAPI or whatever term people are using will also become proscribed, Marxism has to keep shifting the goalposts to stay on the attack. In this case they attack language in order to attack people.
    Just like you used to have to say "Negro", then "Black"? "African-American"? (or is that now on the bad list?) then "colored" then "people of color" .. whatever.

    I think it's also OK to be Oriental - I missed the Indoctrination when I was in the Orient.

    In UK "Asians" is MSN-Marxist codeword for "Muslims" usually in stories involving criminal activity. It has the genuine Asian Community up in arms about being misidentified with these criminals. It's also quite confusing for North Americans to learn that terror attacks or rape gangs were "Asian"! huh?

    Using the term Oriental for Asians -- Johnny Wu

    Filmmaker and Asian-American community leader Johnny Wu was the keynote speaker at the 2013 Culture Shock

  9. #24

    Eddie Huang Misses the Boat.

    Bill Maher notes quite correctly how it seems that one day the term "Oriental" was 'good' and the next day it was 'bad' and is quite perplexed about this.
    Eddie Huang (Writer/Producer of 'Fresh off the Boat' sitcom) tells him he's Oriental and he claims it.
    I guess he didn't get the Marxist Memo.

    These days I'm sure the Left has many ways to make him change his mind and not say these things. .

    Eddie Huang tells Bill Maher that 'Oriental' is not racist (start about 6 min mark)

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Why Do We Say "Asian American" Not "Oriental"?

    Follow the link to a short informative PBS video that explains this thread succinctly.


    Why Do We Say "Asian American" Not "Oriental"?
    Season 1 Episode 35 | 6m 59s

    The word Oriental is hundred of years old, so why do Americans no longer use the word “Oriental”? And how did the word “Asian American” take its place? Watch this week’s Origin of Everything to find out.

    Aired: 07/10/18

    Rating: NR
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Teen Vogue

    What Is Orientalism A Stereotyped Colonialist Vision of Asian Cultures
    (De)colonized is a series on the harms of colonialism and the fierce resistance against it.


    OCTOBER 13, 2021
    “Namaste,” a white woman in Lululemon leggings once said to my crowded yoga class, folding her hands as if in prayer. “That’s Sanskrit. It means I honor the way your body moves. Isn’t that beautiful?”

    Oof. No. Red flag. Although namaste once translated to I bow to you in Sanskrit, it now connotes something closer to a simple hello. The instructor’s dubious translation not only spreads misinformation but exoticizes a common greeting — presumably to titillate the (mostly white) yoga students and exaggerate the foreign “mystique” of the yoga experience.

    Her class is the rule, not the exception. Many yoga classes in the U.S. are colonial spaces. A typical session might involve the routine butchering of Sanskrit phrases and the fetishization of traditional practices and movements, while vaguely “exotic” strings-based instrumental music plays in the background. This curated environment tends to collapse the differences between far-flung traditions; the same studio may include a pastiche of Buddhist statues, Hindu symbols, and Sanskrit chants, flattening the diverse practice into a monolith for white consumption. Most yoga instructors are white women. Tank tops emblazoned with “om” and “namast’ay in bed” abound. The commodification of yoga facilitates exploitation, encouraging studios to reap profits from the appropriation of traditional spiritual practices, without paying or crediting the people who created them. Fundamentally, then, these yoga classes represent colonial, capitalist undertakings that advance at the expense of the very bodies they are built upon.

    In other words, your everyday yoga class is actually a textbook case study in Orientalism. In his pioneering 1978 book Orientalism, postcolonial studies scholar Edward Said defined Orientalism as “a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between ‘the Orient’ and … ‘the Occident.’” Put simply, the “Orient” is a colonial invention. Orientalism is a collection of binaries — between “East” and “West,” foreign and familiar, civilized and uncivilized, primitive and progressive, colonizer and colonized, self and Other. It is a system of representation through which the West produced the East as its opposite, its “surrogate and underground self” — a strange, backward, barbaric land, steeped in mysticism and danger.

    Tellingly, Orientalism opens with this Karl Marx quote: “They cannot represent themselves; they must be represented.” As Thomas Babington Macaulay, the British politician who imposed English colonial education on India, once infamously stated, it could not be denied that “a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia.” Given the assumed superiority of Western culture and literature, it fell to the West to represent the East. Western colonial powers assumed this paternalistic obligation by manufacturing the body of theory and practice that became the “Orient.” This representation permeates our culture; you’ve almost certainly come across classic Orientalist products before. To this day, they form some of our most enduring images of the alien “East.” Remember the feral child Mowgli in Rudyard Kipling’s The Jungle Book, or the meek Indian servants in Frances Hodgson Burnett’s The Secret Garden? These representations illuminate how insidiously Orientalism functions — by exaggerating, essentializing, and exploiting the supposed difference between the East and the West, Orientalism legitimized Western white supremacy.

    Through the colonial project of Orientalism, the “Occident” produced the “Orient.” However, and perhaps more importantly, the “Orient” also produced the “Occident.” Without the East, there is no West. The Orient “helped define Europe (or the West) as its contrasting image, idea, personality, experience.” European culture came into being “by setting itself off against the Orient” — by defining the “self” as what it is not. Think of the Tethered in Jordan Peele’s Us: a shadow class of people who provide requisite contrast to the protagonists, whose exploitation the protagonists’ lives hinge upon, and through whom the protagonists’ humanity is defined.

    Edward Said stressed that the Orient “was not (and is not) a free subject of thought or action.” In essence, to be “Oriental” is to be “Orientalized” — to inhabit whatever vessel deemed appropriate for you at any given time, whether that be a bloodthirsty terrorist or hypersexualized yogic fantasy. Fatimah Asghar aptly captures this slippery, shifting state of personhood in a poem: “you’re kashmiri until they burn your home … you’re muslim until you’re not a virgin. you’re pakistani until they start throwing acid. you’re muslim until it’s too dangerous ... you’re american until the towers fall. until there’s a border on your back.”
    continued next post
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Continued from previous post

    In the decades since Said published his seminal text, the term Orientalism has trickled into the mainstream. However, in the process, the concept has been diluted — severed from its radical roots. These days, the word Orientalism conjures up images of glittering saris, Chinese dragons, and cramped, dusty cities. Maybe a snake charmer or two, for good measure. While these tropes are, of course, part and parcel of Orientalism, the heart of Said’s theory is that Orientalism is not an abstract concept — not just an “airy European fantasy” — but instead “a relationship of power, of domination.” The West’s “material investment” in creating and maintaining the structure of Orientalism sanctioned the violence of European imperialism. As Said puts it in another work, Culture and Imperialism: “‘They’ were not like ‘us,’ and for that reason deserved to be ruled.” Orientalism underpins the systems that allowed Europe to “manage — and even produce — the Orient politically, sociologically, militarily, ideologically, scientifically, and imaginatively.” At its core, then, Orientalism is a symbolic and literal battleground, littered with t***** questions around power, profit, and personhood. Who wields power? To what end? Who tells what story? Who profits? And at whose expense?

    Said’s theory is just as urgent today as it was at the time of its publication. Like virtually every colonial hangover — from Western capitalism to the gender binary — Orientalism didn’t end, it just shape-shifted. It takes on a variety of guises, from well-intentioned but hamfisted “celebrations” of foreign cultures to outright racial terror. Orientalism is yoga studios and bindis at Coachella. It’s Starbucks profiting off a popular South Asian drink by rebranding it a "golden turmeric latte.” It’s Bridgerton romanticizing the aesthetics of British aristocracy while glossing over where (and who) the heroes’ riches came from. It’s a white woman falling “in love” with chai after visiting India and then proceeding to make millions selling the drink. It’s calling COVID-19 “kung flu.” It’s my former history teacher asking her students to debate the “pros and cons” of colonialism, while consistently mixing up the only two South Asian girls in her class. It’s every “empowering” Netflix show that depicts a Muslim woman taking off her hijab for a mediocre white man. It’s the fact that, as of 2017, the majority of The New York Times’s Chinese and Indian recipes were written by white people. It’s Trump saying, “I love Hindu,” and then striving to impose a Muslim ban. It’s the British Museum hoarding looted Indian artwork in glass display cases. It’s Steve McCurry achieving global fame after National Geographic published his photograph, “Afghan Girl,” while the portrait’s subject, Sharbat Gula, not only never received a penny for the photo but was allegedly imprisoned because of its impact. It’s the pervasive rhetoric painting U.S. military imperialism as “a fight for the rights of women” who are in desperate need of saving from their barbaric homelands by white Christian Westerners.

    The key takeaway here is that Orientalism is not just a trendy buzzword, but a fraught framework that grows out of bloody histories of colonialism, capitalism, and domination. It’s simultaneously timely and timeless. Orientalism names a power struggle that stretches back centuries and continues to structure our lives. Its ubiquity has dire consequences: Orientalism is a site of violence. In March 2021, the white man who killed eight people — including six East and Southeast Asian women who were working in Atlanta massage parlors — told the police he carried out this massacre because he had a “sexual addiction” and wanted to eliminate a “temptation.” As scholar Rumya Putcha points out, massage parlors like the ones the shooter targeted, or yoga studios like the one I mentioned at the start of this essay, are “part of a broader industrial complex that capitalizes on the racist belief that Asian people and Asian women, in particular, possess magical, spiritual, and sexual healing abilities. These attitudes belong to an entrenched Orientalist infrastructure in the United States that connects yoga, meditation, and massage to tourism, pleasure, and escape.” The long history of fetishizing and sexualizing Asian women animates Orientalist fantasies. While my yoga instructor’s mistranslation of namaste as I honor the way your body moves may seem innocuous, this kind of mundane Orientalism injects a simple greeting with sexual innuendo and a foreign, mystical charge. As we saw in Atlanta, that process of Orientalizing can yield material violence against “Orientals.”

    Don’t worry, you don’t have to quit your yoga class. After all, Orientalism doesn’t end when you roll up your yoga mat and head out for a smoothie. It follows you through the door. It saturates our world. Because Orientalism is a product of empire, resisting Orientalism goes hand in hand with the concrete, political work of decolonization. Decolonization is not a metaphor. Decolonization looks like the end of settler colonialism, the repatriation of Indigenous lands, the erasure of borders, mutual aid networks, prison abolition, and disability justice. It looks like liberation for queer and trans people, Black people, Indigenous people, fat people, and Dalit people. It looks like wrenching the pen back from colonizers who have “represented” us for so long and, instead, writing our own stories. In Said’s words: “Stories are at the heart of what explorers and novelists say about strange regions of the world; they also become the method colonized people use to assert their own identity and the existence of their own history.”
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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