Ground fighting and Kung fu (all styles known as of today

[RenDaHai]

kung fu culture and morality is about combining actual fighting ability with virtue. claiming to be a righteous or enlightened person is the easier part.

i actually partake in real, "primitive", "weird/creepy", "ching chong" sh1t like praying to heaven to strike down enemies, letting my ancestors ghost smell food before i eat them, chant diamond and heart sutra silently when i run or do iron palm. i do it with a straight face. i still learned bjj from friends, how does doing these things stop you from learning bjj i dont get it.

before i run with 40 pound weight vest i do light body qigong and imagine turning light as a feather, then pray to rabbit god for speed. i chant protection spell before i deadlift. i do this with a straight face. if you find this comical then you need to reevaluate your "pure esoteric holistic lifestyle" because my esoteric enlightened penus ranking is significantly higher than yours.

where the hell did u guys learn that doing weird stuff means you dont have to train realisticly anymore. how does that even work.

Ahaha, but of course. The way of Yao and Shun. The Shen can smell food, the Gui can taste baijiu poured on the earth. In every house I trained in there was a statue of JinNaLuo at the family alter, my masters would enter Shaolin just to pray to him and not to the Buddha. Jinnaluo always faces the place of training and to worship him you must simply train hard before his eyes. Everything according to the 4 seasons. None of these things are silly. Ritual binds the past to the future.

Righteousness and Benevolence intertwine like yin and yang, often it is immoral NOT to seek retribution, if you allow a murderer to go unpunished though you show mercy to the murderer you show contempt for the rest of the world you unleash him upon. Absolute pacifism is not the way. I am not judging any other arts as immoral, simply that this aspect must be acknowledged because morality is the rule by which you act in the world, how can you train action without it?

I would say the sparring and the training is the easier part. The harder part is committing to the rules of virtue in reality, most especially when you know your condition is not up to it. If someone stands up for righteousness despite their lack of ability it is to be admired far more than hard training. But why not do both? I agree that training must be realistic. I'm all for training in all ways and all aspects but being realistic is also about accepting how important a part morality and emotion plays in fighting because these things are what shape the situation that you must then act in with your kung fu.

I myself am deficient in both strength and virtue, but I wouldn't want to seek one without the other.

[bawang]

Ahaha, but of course.

i can imagine you saying this in real life with fake chinese accent while wiggling your eyebrows like a caterpillar.

my masters would enter Shaolin just to pray to him and not to the Buddha.

forget your master, do you worship jinnaluo deity. if you dont then you dont train real shaolin kung fu. if you are not hardcore christian preventing you from worshiping pagans, then get on your knees face the direction of song mountain and start praying right now so you can claim legit shaolin.

I myself am deficient in both strength and virtue

then you have a big problem because it only takes 3 months to gain significant muscle and strength from weight lifting and it takes 1 second to make a morally upright decision when your integrity is at stake, and you been training kung fu for what, 15 years?

I'm all for training in all ways and all aspects but being realistic is also about accepting how important a part morality and emotion plays in fighting because these things are what shape the situation that you must then act in with your kung fu.

I myself am deficient in both strength and virtue, but I wouldn't want to seek one without the other.

then why you even arguing with me. the whole point of my posting was
-mightyb claimed to train real alive combat before on this forum
- now he claim bjj is not realistic
- then he says he just dont wanna train it, combat is dumb, he lives a gently life of flexibility and self expression

[RenDaHai]

then why the hell are you even arguing with me. the whole point of my posting was
-mightyb claimed to train real alive combat before on this forum
- now he claim bjj is not realistic
- then he says he just dont wanna train it, combat is dumb, he lives a gently life of flexibility and self expression

Not arguing at all, I agree with your position for the most part, just clarifying my own (for myself as much as anyone) and adding some things that need to be said. Just used your post as a launch.

Don't think MightyB is saying that exactly just that there is not a clear edge around what is Martial Arts, so it becomes part of everything you do, so it is holistic.

My Kung fu is dedicated to King Luo. The image next to my name, that is the talisman of Song mountain. To enter the mountain reverently you must wear it on yellow paper and go through the gate appropriate to the season.

[bawang]

no im pretty sure he hates bjj. maybe from a traumatic event earlier in life like bullying by jocks or reading too much bullshido forums.

My Kung fu is dedicated to King Luo. The image next to my name, that is the talisman of Song mountain. To enter the mountain reverently you must wear it on yellow paper and go through the gate appropriate to the season.

very good my brother i certify you this moment as totally legitimate shaolin kung fu practitioner. just need to get big muscles then you will be allowed to take students in the uk.

all real shaolin monks must have big muscles

[RenDaHai]

very good my brother i certify you this moment as totally legitimate shaolin kung fu practitioner. just need to get big muscles then you will be allowed to take students in the uk.

all real shaolin monks must have big muscles

In all honesty my Kung Fu is almost entirely from the villages of Songshan and not from the temple. The temple built their new training hall behind the statues of King Luo instead of in front of his eyes... They don't seem to venerate him as much as they do in the villages.

The prevailing philosophy outside the temple is not Chan but Neo-Confucianism, largely that of the 'Wang YangMing' line.

[Jimbo]

this topic is moot, if you like fighting why argue whether they need to train bjj or not. this is rediculous. just pay for two or three month lessons. then if you feel you dont need it stop training. what is the problem?


all these changes in the martial art world seems like a hurricane but is just a mosquito farrting in the real world.

I agree with this.

A few years ago, I took up BJJ for the experience. My first MA experience was Judo, and in that dojo, ne waza was very much a part of the curriculum, though not as extensive as in BJJ. So all those years later, I decided to explore that aspect in greater detail.

I enjoyed the BJJ training and got a lot out of the experience. However, I eventually came to the realization that I didn't love it enough to stay with it for life, so I stopped after a year. And that was okay, too. As MAists, we are the sum of our experiences, and those are different for everyone. I simply decided for myself that if I wanted to explore ground grappling, I would need to go to the art that specializes in it. Good quality BJJ schools are generally not hard to find in most places.

[mickey]

Greetings,


mig:

Grandmaster Alan Lee did a 2 part article for IKF magazine back in the early 1980's, circa 1983. The second part featured a categorization of the types of Chinese ground fighting methods he taught. Within each category was the English translation of the flowered names of the techniques, but no detail on how the techniques worked.

mickey

[mickey]

Greetings,

Thank you, SKM!!

I forgot how good the writing was. It was way better than the photos. The historical info will definitely shake up some assertions made here.

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

why in TCMA there is no ground fighting as in Jujitsu.

You may also ask, "Why BJJ has no mobility (run down) training?" The "ground game" and "mobility training - run your opponent down and then take off at the same time" are opposite to each other.

[MightyB]

- now he claim bjj is not realistic

I know... Right?

[Kellen Bassette]

The book CHIN NA FA: Skill of Catch and Hold, by Liu Jin Sheng, from 1936, has several rudimentary locks and chokes from the ground. The ground fighting really isn't anything you can't find anywhere else, but it does give Chinese names to common techniques we tend not to think of as "Kung Fu moves" today.

[mig]

I know... Right?

In the beginning you thought I was a troll then you seem to be invincible thinking that there is no ground fighting. BTW, I mentioned ground fighting not necessarily bjj and mentioned jj for the sake of clarity. Now, again, even if you spend time practicing horse stance (mabu or sipingma) you still may fall down is whatever circumstance. Let's be clear, I am not talking ground fighting in tournaments or martial arts. There are some good answers that I am reading now to make better sense why I haven't seen a TCMA emphasize ground fighting. Believe I don't buy all the mma thing nor the gong fu either. It is more for the understanding in gongfu history and the importance of what to do when you fall in the ground to defend yourself.

[mig]

You may also ask, "Why BJJ has no mobility (run down) training?" The "ground game" and "mobility training - run your opponent down and then take off at the same time" are opposite to each other.

Really, is that the way it works? Tell me, I am curious, I see all these demos, why the guy who punches doesn't react, do you think he's going to do the way you are doing it. I see the application but you know that in real life the situation is different.

[mickey]

Greetings,

mig,

Check with SKM about what part of that article the categorization of techniques showed up in. I am presently unsure.


SKM,

I copied out that segment as soon as I saw it posted up. Aside from the Digong of Taiwan that I m posted up about a few years ago, the Tei Tong (Grand Earth) style was being taught in Hong Kong in the late 1970's. I think the Sifu was one of the founding members of the Hong Kong Chinese martial Arts Association (don't know his name). There is a chance that there is a quiet transmission of this style on the West Coast. This style does form a component of the Tai Sheng Pi Kua Men style,

Other articles about Chinese ground fighting were submitted by Douglas L. Wong in the mid 70's and by John Fey circa 1980. I mention this just in case you were not aware of them, not that you might post them up.


mickey

[Jimbo]

Aside from the Digong of Taiwan that I m posted up about a few years ago, the Tei Tong (Grand Earth) style was being taught in Hong Kong in the late 1970's. I think the Sifu was one of the founding members of the Hong Kong Chinese martial Arts Association (don't know his name). There is a chance that there is a quiet transmission of this style on the West Coast. This style does form a component of the Tai Sheng Pi Kua Men style,


mickey

Mickey, are you referring to Chan Sau-Chung?