Keep For Future Reference: The R.W. Smith Collection

[lkfmdc]

I know a lot of people were first exposed to stuff via Smith, he was a "pioneer" etc etc and you aren't supposed to speak ill of the dead....

But, assuming you have footage of people who are very important figures, where there is almost no footage of them, do you keep them secret, let them rot and keep anyone from ever seeing them? What purpose does that actually serve???

Smith was a spiteful *******... he was kicked out of Chang Dung Seng's school and spent his entire career bad mouthing Shuai Jiao, even things he patently knew were not true.

The whole "martial arts isn't about violence" crap is not only HIS OPINION, it is not in any way supported by history, fact or even his experience. He was hanging around with active and former military men, gangsters and fighters.... he was a hippie at heart which is fine, but don't confuse your personal preferances for fact

[B.Tunks]

Yes. It is positively Luanjie. It is not the one that can be seen done by Gao Daosheng's students either.
Keeps his shoulders hunched over and has a style of movement not unlike Gao Daosheng's in terms of performance cadence and speed. No stops for posing or showing a posture. Just a rocket from start to finish.

Not sure about the jacket.

Ah nice one KB! I'm pretty certain that's exactly what I saw. I wasn't told it was WST at the time though but he was certainly the only one from that era in Taiwan who it could have been. Apparently there is more footage of him in private collections in Japan.

BT

[Tainan Mantis]

Ah nice one KB! I'm pretty certain that's exactly what I saw. I wasn't told it was WST at the time though but he was certainly the only one from that era in Taiwan who it could have been. Apparently there is more footage of him in private collections in Japan.

BT

I have seen the Gao Daosheng footage in Japan. Don't know about Wang Songting though.
Just before he passed away his students filmed him doing all his forms. That footage is no lost. Though someone may be hiding it.

Of Smith's footage that I have seen the most valuable (to me) was of Wei Shaotang (The starter of the Eight Step Mantis) performing his basic exercises as well as including the two man forms "Lipi" and "Pai An" . There is also Wei Shaotang doing some Zhai Yao in the footage. Wei's student who is transmitting to the next generation asked me if I knew of any more footage of Wei, to which I said no.

Mike Martello originally made all the footage of Wei (originally from Smith's collection) available free to all on a website about 14 years ago. Though I don't know what happened to that site after Mike Martello passed away.

Wang Songting is interesting as a character who lived a pretty hardcore life and retired in Taiwan after the war. It is a shame that the footage of him is not public as it would help people differentiate between the Showy Mantis that has gained traction, versus how the old timers way of training.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There were aspects of Smith's writings that I disagreed with, or sometimes found self-contradictory.

For example:

1) He criticized CMA systems that he felt were 'non-functional', yet in his Martial Musings, he criticized UFC fighting as not very good and glorifying violence (if I recall correctly). Meaning, he seemed unimpressed with systems he deemed 'dance-like' and void of combative function, but was also highly critical of MAs and MAists that emphasized the application of fighting aspects if they didn't fit his liking, and felt they only appealed to audiences' baser instincts.

2). He seemed to view southern CMA systems (except for maybe Fujian-style White Crane systems and Liao Wu-Chang's Monkey) as 'rudimentary' and inferior to northern styles, especially the 'internal' systems of Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua.

3). He included translations of fanciful tales of the fighting and feats of famous internal masters as if they were to be taken as fact, and proof of the 'internal' systems' superiority over 'Shaolin' systems.

There are other things as well, but you get the point. That said, he had been in the arts before I was ever born, so he had the right to have his opinion, and I still respect him, even though, IMO, he was completely wrong about some things. I don't have to totally agree with a person to respect his/her opinions.

As for Draeger, I agree that his JMA writings were in a class of their own. But I found R.W. Smith to be one of the most entertaining/readable MA authors ever, with his unique writing style. In comparison, most MA books are very dry reading. IMO, one of Smith's best books is the long out-of-print Western Boxing and World Wrestling, written under the pseudonym John F. Gilbey.

Agreed on all points.
I have heard of that "northern superiority" before, Bawang has it, LOL !
I disagree of course.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know a lot of people were first exposed to stuff via Smith, he was a "pioneer" etc etc and you aren't supposed to speak ill of the dead....

But, assuming you have footage of people who are very important figures, where there is almost no footage of them, do you keep them secret, let them rot and keep anyone from ever seeing them? What purpose does that actually serve???

Smith was a spiteful *******... he was kicked out of Chang Dung Seng's school and spent his entire career bad mouthing Shuai Jiao, even things he patently knew were not true.

The whole "martial arts isn't about violence" crap is not only HIS OPINION, it is not in any way supported by history, fact or even his experience. He was hanging around with active and former military men, gangsters and fighters.... he was a hippie at heart which is fine, but don't confuse your personal preferances for fact

Yes, I recall him writing that Shuai Jiao was very inferior to Judo.

[Jimbo]

Here is some film of Zhang Junfeng (in Wage-Giles spelling: Chang Chun-feng), one of Hung I-hsiang's main teachers whom R.W. Smith mentioned in his books. He is teaching Xingyi. This film was reportedly shot in 1957 at Zhongshan Park in Taipei. I don't know if Smith shot it or not, as I thought he was in Taiwan from 1959-62.

[B.Tunks]

I have seen the Gao Daosheng footage in Japan. Don't know about Wang Songting though.
Just before he passed away his students filmed him doing all his forms. That footage is no lost. Though someone may be hiding it.

Of Smith's footage that I have seen the most valuable (to me) was of Wei Shaotang (The starter of the Eight Step Mantis) performing his basic exercises as well as including the two man forms "Lipi" and "Pai An" . There is also Wei Shaotang doing some Zhai Yao in the footage. Wei's student who is transmitting to the next generation asked me if I knew of any more footage of Wei, to which I said no.

Mike Martello originally made all the footage of Wei (originally from Smith's collection) available free to all on a website about 14 years ago. Though I don't know what happened to that site after Mike Martello passed away.

Wang Songting is interesting as a character who lived a pretty hardcore life and retired in Taiwan after the war. It is a shame that the footage of him is not public as it would help people differentiate between the Showy Mantis that has gained traction, versus how the old timers way of training.

I've got all of that Wei Xiaotang footage. If I ever knew it was filmed by R.Smith, I long forgot. I also have footage of him doing jian duilian - one filmed inside and one outside, if memory serves me correctly.

The footage of Wang Songting taken by his students may be the same I mentioned.

BT

[Jimbo]

I don't know if Smith shot this footage or not, but it's from the same timeline that he was in Taiwan. The only individual I can recognize on sight is Hung I-hsiang.

[mickey]

Greetings Jimbo,

That is the footage taken by George Mattson Sensei of Uechi Ryu. It was shot during the 1960's.

mickey

[Jimbo]

Thanks for clarifying, mickey. I've had Mattson Sensei's book The Way of Karate, since I was a kid. One of Karate's true American pioneers. A little side note is that in the 60s, Bruce Lee visited his dojo in Boston, and before Donnie Yen got into movies, he studied a while under Mattson Sensei.

Here's some more footage from that gathering/demo. At about 1:22, the little girl almost whacks a couple of the spectators (teachers?) right in their faces with her swords, lol.