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Thread: Tong Long Tan Tui/ Praying Mantis Tan Tui

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  1. #1

    Tong Long Tan Tui/ Praying Mantis Tan Tui

    Greetings,

    In an interview with the late Lau Kar Leung, He made reference to some of the styles that he studied, outside his Hung Gar. One of those styles was Praying Mantis Tan Tui. Would this be the same style the we would later know as Wah Lum? I had the impression that it was something different because of the earlier name for Wah Lum in Hong Kong was Shantung Mantis. If this is a separate and distinct style from what we know as Wah Lum, is there any other info on it?


    mickey

  2. #2
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    Can you give a time line and location when this might have happened?

  3. #3
    Greetings Tainan Mantis,

    I tried to locate the interview on u tube.

    He was wearing a white outfit and demo'd a few styles. Before the demo he questioned the interviewers knowledge of a few styles, as if to say he was familiar with them. He demonstrated Eagle Claw, Choy Li Fut, and a third style. It was edited out of sequence because after one performance, he looked as if he was going to throw up. He managed to control it.

    I hate it when I make reference to something and it disappears. Now, I am hoping I got it right to begin with. The demo looked as if it could have been done on the 1980's.


    mickey

  4. #4
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    Most likely he is means Wah Lum.
    If he trained in the states, or HK. I have never heard of another school that combines wah lum and tantui into their style. Though, it does not mean that he learned it from Chanpoi or his disciples as there were some other members who learned before Chanpoi and taught in closed door clubs, especially for people from HK.

    It would be good to get details as there are supposedly some interesting differences between the styles.

    About 10-15 years ago I started bringing this up on this forum and outlining the differences. Sadly I have no solid information handy.
    There were some video recordings I have seen of non Chanpoi wahlum from China which were very good and helped confirm (to me, since I don't have the videos) that the older wah lum material originally descends from Liang Xuexiang. Access to non Chanpoi footage would allow a lot of questions to be answered about older mantis.

    So, still hoping to get my hands on that before I die.

  5. #5
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    This video shows some WL people from Shajing and Hong Kong demonstrating some forms along with the US team. They didnīt learn from Grandmaster CP, so itīs possible to see another interpretation of WL.

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzI4MjUzNzI4.html

    It was a welcoming party organized by Shajing local government in 2014 to honor Grandmaster Chan. I was in that trip, and we were received with great honors. Later that day we went to a banquet in a restaurant and we could hang out with our WL family from Hong Kong and Shajing. Weīve met some Grandmaster Chanīs sihings, but it seems that they donīt practice or teach anymore.

    Tainan Mantis, could you post your thoughts on the forms you see on this video performed by the China WL team? Some of them Iīve never seen, like short staff form.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HualinBR View Post
    This video shows some WL people from Shajing and Hong Kong demonstrating some forms along with the US team. They didnīt learn from Grandmaster CP, so itīs possible to see another interpretation of WL.

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzI4MjUzNzI4.html

    It was a welcoming party organized by Shajing local government in 2014 to honor Grandmaster Chan. I was in that trip, and we were received with great honors. Later that day we went to a banquet in a restaurant and we could hang out with our WL family from Hong Kong and Shajing. Weīve met some Grandmaster Chanīs sihings, but it seems that they donīt practice or teach anymore.

    Tainan Mantis, could you post your thoughts on the forms you see on this video performed by the China WL team? Some of them Iīve never seen, like short staff form.
    Most here know that I try not to be overly critical or rude. Yes, here comes the "but".... Most of the things in that video look like a merge of Tan Tui with horrible Southern fist. Absent are the traditional Mantis combinations, theories, keywords, etc. found in Taiji Mantis, Meihua Mantis, Taiji Meihua Mantis, or Qixing Mantis.

    People are certainly free to practice whatever they desire and call it whatever they want, but to try and see in it the ancient roots of Mantis based on what is seen in that video is absurd.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HualinBR View Post

    Tainan Mantis, could you post your thoughts on the forms you see on this video performed by the China WL team? Some of them Iīve never seen, like short staff form.
    Wow, thanks for posting. Is there a way to download this?

    Make no mistake, there is real here mantis, nothing to do with the tantui or shuai shou conjecture. Just straight up old school mantis.

    At 10:30 minutes you can see it. Don't be mistaken by the lack of practice on the senior's part, it is not perfectly performed, but it is from the old days. At 36m you can see how this type of form can be modified to the point it loses its original meaning.

    13:50 Beng bu, pity he felt he had to fancy it up a bit.
    Right around 14:00 he shuffles forward with the left palm strike performing it more than once. This is not unique to Wah Lum, but most commonly seen there.

    +33m is an interesting form, don't recognize it.

    37:17 cool old guy performing what looks like an wah lum style minus multiple southern identities.

    All in all, the influence of wah lum after it came down south and later moved through HK and the states makes it difficult to trace what was really there originally, but occasionally it comes through, such as with the odd digong we see at the 10+ minute mark. This material looks more like what was described by Heaven Ascended Taoist under his digong section.

    Later branches of mantis decreased the importance of digong within their practice, either relegating it to the last zhai yao form or incorporating digong from other schools instead.

    A video I saw in the past had different material and I think more of it.

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