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Thread: effects of doing stone warrior workouts for years

  1. #1
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    effects of doing stone warrior workouts for years

    Alright, so certain martial arts styles have sets that are designed to build power that basically involve doing techniques with all your muscles flexed. The most discussed is probably Stone Warrior from Green Dragon which is 90 minutes long when you do it with as many reps as you're supposed to.

    I think doing 90 minutes of constant tension is crazy.

    As we have discussed numerous times over the years, this kind of thing will not build power like weight lifting will. It might be something to do if you don't have weights, really.

    I want to bring up two things. First, has anyone done anything like this for extended periods of time? Snake Turns Over? Stone Warrior? What were your results? Two, what is a decent amount of time past which doing constant tension becomes dangerous? I mean if you think about weight lifting, you're basically using your muscles for a minute or less per set with rest in between. And then a couple sets per exercise. Maybe, maybe a few minutes total per workout. Similar exercises don't even approach the minutes of continual tension that you are supposed to do in sets like these. The main thing I think of is that there is no way you can actually do maximal tension for any length of time during these sets. I mean after a few seconds your maximum output decreases, and then you do more? No. You can do as much as you can at that moment, though. One poster on this forum I think said that he thought that doing this kind of exercise can make your heart bigger over time and might not be a good idea. We are talking 90 minutes of continual tension. Seriously? Putting the crazy aside, what about doing something like this for 10 minutes? Or maybe taking breaks between the exercises? On the videos Sifu Allen is a big guy but I question whether or not he got that big from Stone Warrior. Although his legs are skinny, and doing horse stance, even for 90 minutes, won't make your legs big, I guess it's possible he did get it from Stone Warrior. In the past I have done Stone Warrior, although not up to the 36 reps you're supposed to, but I was at like 12 or 8 or something which took a ridiculous 28 minutes or something, I don't know how much benefit I got from it. Of course nutriders on this forum complained that I didn't get results because I didn't do it enough, however the reason I stopped was I got into powerlifting which was more efficient. My diet wasn't correct when I was doing Stone Warrior, either, due to me not knowing about how to eat for size at the time. I'm just curious what everyone's experiences here are with these things because I seem to get interested in them again every few years.
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  2. #2
    You mean like a dynamic tension set? I learned one from my teacher called( Shaolin Jingang Luohan Gong) it only takes 5 minutes to perform and was recommended by my teacher to do it three times a day. I am 45 now and feel once a day along with all the other training I do is enough. It is followed by a very simple method for relaxing the body. I have found many benefits to this type of training though they don’t match the exaggerated explanations in the traditional text.

    It does increase strength, somewhat harden the body against blows, and has a few noticeable health side effects. One is longer lasting and stronger sex performance. Recently I have noticed it helps to toughen the body against small injures. Since I have been training daily with teenagers and my body is feeling it in many places, I notice a big difference when I do and don’t perform this set daily.

  3. #3
    Everyone who does these exercises will gain the benefits. MOST people quit after a few weeks, so...

    Start with Snake Turns Over. Your arms will feel 'harder', and your grip will improve.
    You will injure people in arm-to-arm contact drills, while resisting injury yourself.

    It doesn't happen over night. I noticed gains at 50 days (out of the 100 day program).

    I also noticed improved sexual stamina, but I was younger when I first began the program, so...




    People should stop debating stances or squats. Do both. They offer different, but complementary, benefits.
    Same with tension exercises.

    Start today.
    Give us a status update in 90 days.
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  4. #4
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    The guys that I knew in Akron, Ohio who followed the program were hard as nails beasts! One friend trained these for two hours every day. He was one of the toughest men that I have ever met. I practiced some of these exercises in the 70s and 80s with great results.
    Richard A. Tolson
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  5. #5
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    Dynamic tension sets work, period.
    The issue MAY be that, since there are only finite hours in the day, how does one decide where to focus one's energy?

    Are there more effective methods of strength building?
    Yes, there is no debate about this ( or at least there shouldn't be since we have empirical evidence for this).

    The thing is that, dynamic tension builds strength ALONG the range of movement in a far more direct manner than typical strength building.
    What I mean is this, and using the "pushing" motion of pushing you arm away from your chest as an example:
    Do a bench press or push-up and you have a set pathway that, while CLOSE to a punch, is NOT a punch, so you will strength all the muscles involved in punching in a GENERAL way.
    Dynamic tension strengths the muscles in a SPECIFIC way since you are actually doing the punching movement EXACTLY as you would when punching ( albeit slower and with tension).

    It is NOT a question of better or worse, it is simply DIFFERENT.

    Ideally, do BOTH methods ( kind of a no-brainer when you think of it).

    Now, the issue of 90 min.
    There is an inverse ratio of time VS intensity, in short, the more intense an exercise, the LESS time you can do it for ( think an all our sprint VS a paced run).

    Logically speaking, if you can do ANYTHING for 90 min, it is NOT that intense.

    I do the Iron Wire and, depending on what I wish to work on at the time, it can be done for strength or for conditioning or for relaxation.
    There is a very different FEEL to dynamic tension and I find that it COMPLIMENTS my general strength training very well.\

    And that is the thing, dynamic tension sets were NEVER designed to take the place of general strength training BUT to COMPLIMENT it or even to supplement it when using ST devices was not possible.

    Historically speaking, strength training devices were ALWAYS used for building general strength while specialized sets and such were used to develop SPECIALIZED strength and conditioning.
    Psalms 144:1
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    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #6
    it doesnt matter if an exercise is made up or not, any kind of muscle tension over time will make the muscle stronger. the question is if it will fuk ur body up in the long run

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
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  7. #7
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    I've been doing dynamic tension sets for well over 20 years with no ill effect.
    Feels good. I like it. I don't know what more to say about it.
    I like Iron wire.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    it doesnt matter if an exercise is made up or not, any kind of muscle tension over time will make the muscle stronger. the question is if it will fuk ur body up in the long run
    Yeah, the reverse breathing methods and the "valsalva maneuvers" can have bad effects if not trained properly or abused.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
    Greetings,

    When it comes to dynamic sets like Stone Warrior. One has to look at the foundation it is built upon. Stone Warrior is taught at Green Dragon at the advanced levels; that is, one has to really build up the body through the stance work, the earlier strength development programs, etc. So, when the practitioner arrives at the level where he/she can practice this set, the person has a FOUNDATION to build upon. It is definitely NOT for the 98 pound weakling. Stone warrior is not my practice but I do understand where it fits in the context of a training program. If there is anything wrong in the transmission of the TCMA it is the de-emphasis of chi development from the very beginning. It can really help with someone practicing a set like this. So, Stone Warrior, just going by the way it is taught at GD, is a complementary training set.

    Someone posted at this forum that this set came from Kam Yuen. It made me wonder of the Stone Warrior were the Daruma exercises referred to by the late Brendan Lai. I looked at this set, anew, last year. I got the impression that it had markers placed in it.

    To answer your question IronFist (welcome back, by the way), I have not seen anyone develop incredible, extraordinary, strength by training sets like Stone Warrior exclusively. That does not mean that the set will not benefit the practitioner in other ways, some of which were already shared.

    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 03-30-2016 at 10:55 AM.

  10. #10
    More,

    In terms of time, IronFist. it is not unusual for any training program that existed before 1949 to take over 90 minutes to do. And if you add the component of meditation/chi development, you are looking at a three hour block of time. Back in he 1980's, a friend of mine learned a method of Sinew Washing that took up to 2 hours to do.

    Many people remember the late Hai Deng Dashi (I hope I got that right) for his one finger handstand. That guy was an incredibly strong mofo. One thing he definite did was lift weights. It may not be the plates that you are familiar with but he did that. If you look at his younger photos, it was not like his clothing was holding him up. The strength was definitely there. If you have the time, check out the footage of him using the Monk Spade. The form is not that much to look at but take notice of the way he stops and starts moving the weapon. It was a small glimpse at how he continued to train strength into old age.

    I write this because the Green Dragon people train with weights. They also train powerlifting and have competed in that. So, your strength training path is not that far removed from theirs.

    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 03-30-2016 at 11:49 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I've been doing dynamic tension sets for well over 20 years with no ill effect.
    Feels good. I like it. I don't know what more to say about it.
    I like Iron wire.
    iron thread yes but stone warrior is some kooky sketchy sh1t bro

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  12. #12
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    Interesting to know that Green Dragon students lift weights. I think this kind of thing would work well with weight lifting. I was doing it a while ago and I felt like maybe I was getting a little stronger. I am confident that strength increases come from working against a weight and I don't know the efficiency to which dynamic tension does this. When you use dynamic tension you are using your muscles against themselves. This is the opposite of when you lift weights and one muscle is working and the antagonist is relaxing. But remember that there are techniques in weight lifting where you flex the antagonists as well.

    One other point to mention with this is that the resistance is not going to stay constant. You are going to get tired and lazy while you are doing it and reduce the tension. If you are doing squats with a barbell, the weight is always the same. You end the set because you cannot do anymore or because you finished your desired number of reps. During a form of Stone Warrior you are going to decrease and increase the tension as you go. That's what I did. I would be doing it and realize I had relaxed a bit and then squeeze harder for a bit but then you can't put forth full effort for long so I would relax again and it keeps repeating like that. Weights are the same weight so you either put forth enough strength to lift it or you don't.

    Talk about my idea of taking a break between each set. I try to do deep breathing that fits the movements other than on the one exercise where you have to breathe a certain way. I am certain that that much constant tension is a bad idea and is probably based on the strange stuff that kung fu tries to pass off as legit exercise, like pushing on a tree every day as it grows and eventually you will be able to bend a full grown tree. The other concept is that maybe using your muscles against each other like this has a default brake in it, like if you tried to squat a weight over and over your body would eventually be like STOP and you wouldn't be able to. Nevertheless, doing a strength set like this means that as your body gets tired it will naturally reduce the strength.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    I am certain that that much constant tension is a bad idea and is probably based on the strange stuff that kung fu tries to pass off as legit exercise,

    Certain? lol

    Just give it a try. Snake turns over. 100 days.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    iron thread yes but stone warrior is some kooky sketchy sh1t bro
    I don't know enough about it to say.
    I am pretty happy with what I have learned.
    I'm 52 now and I feel great. I attribute a lot of that to Kung Fu, Yoga and qigong practice.
    Not even religious practice. Just regular practice.

    Feels weird if I don't practice for more than a week.
    I feel weird if I practice too much.
    Found the sweet spot and I'm sticking to it. (the sweet spot shouldn't be confused with the wet spot )
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #15
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    Some time ago I was doing Stone Warrior again. I was doing the exercises for like 10 minutes which was 8 reps. I think I sometimes had the inclination that I should be taking a break between some of them. I mean even 10 minutes of constant exercise is a bit weird. It was rewarding, though.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

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