Mandatory Testing For Blood Borne Diseases???

[neilhytholt]

So at the recommendation of somebody on here who was responding to my post about places that have sparring, this weekend I went to buy a mouthguard for a sparring class at a dojo, and by accident find a place that trains BJJ/wrestling/MMA and standup (shall remain unnamed because of any slander/liability issues). I was pretty surprised when they said they'd allow any techniques and wouldn't limit techniques on stand up fighting to just punches, etc., and even hand stand up grappling!!!

Anyway, so after the MMA class, I'm doing standup with another fighter, and I have MMA gloves on with the fingers open. So we're sparring and boxing, don't have mouth guards because we're going slow, and I go to hit him in chin with a hook punch, and he turns toward the punch for some strange reason, and somehow I hit him just above the mouth, and somehow manage to bloody both his lip and two of my exposed knuckles on his teeth.

Suffice it to say, suddenly I remember why I hadn't done any sparring for a while, after visiting the STD clinic a while back and getting a lecture about martial arts practice and Hepatitis/HIV.

Needless to say that I was a bit panicked at this point. He was allso very concerned. Turns out he's an amateur fighter and so knows very well the problems we could be facing. So we are quickly trading all our testing statistics, and now are both a bit shaken.


So okay, here's the thing, assuming that he's on the up and up and we're both tested okay, how do to prevent something like this from happening in the future?

After searching around the Internet for a couple of days, there don't seem to be any places that do blood tests periodically except for actual fights, and even if they did, you'd be relying on people not lying, or catching something between tests.

Anybody have any ideas how to deal with this? How do you deal with this in your gym/dojo/kwoon?

[PlumDragon]

I dont mean to give information which might create any extra stress, but HIV results can take as long as 6 months to accurately show positive results; ie, you should both get tested 6 months from now if youre really that worried about the possibility.

Prevention: While I have never dealt with this problem personally, and I rarely use a mouthguard during sparring (even hard sparring), if you both had mouthguards on at the time, it could have entirely prevented the situation. As far as I can tell, more preventative steps would mean covering your hands up more, ie wearing more enclosed gloves...
Also, while it limits the realism of the sparring, you could restrict facial shots in the case that somebody isnt wearing what you would consider "ample" preventative gear...

[neilhytholt]

I dont mean to give information which might create any extra stress, but HIV results can take as long as 6 months to accurately show positive results; ie, you should both get tested 6 months from now if youre really that worried about the possibility.

Prevention: While I have never dealt with this problem personally, and I rarely use a mouthguard during sparring (even hard sparring), if you both had mouthguards on at the time, it could have entirely prevented the situation. As far as I can tell, more preventative steps would mean covering your hands up more, ie wearing more enclosed gloves...
Also, while it limits the realism of the sparring, you could restrict facial shots in the case that somebody isnt wearing what you would consider "ample" preventative gear...

Sure, not totally in the clear on this one obviously. We both won't know for a while even though evidently we were both tested recently for HIV.

Yeah, I guess mouthguards + enclosed gloves. I found a pair of light Kevlar gloves used by cops when they search people that I can wear underneath the MMA gloves.

But still this is a problem because if somehow blood is let it can still get in your eyes. This guy also fights as part of a team, so I asked his instructor who is a pro MMA fighter what to deal with this. His answer was, "If you don't want Hep-C, don't be a fighter."??? WTF ??? Okay, well what about class?

So basically the strategy at this point is goggles for the eyes, mouthguards + enclosed gloves. It will be a little more of a pain but that should work unless somehow we elbow or knee each other in the mouth or something.

But this limits the training options because obviously I can't do BJJ set up with gloves and goggles, etc.

And then there's also the feet issue. There's old blood on the mats, and every once in a while people break open their toes or something. I can't count the number of times I split open my feet somehow in past karate practice. I used to break or bloody my toes a lot in sparring.

[neilhytholt]

Basically, I guess I forgot to mention my original point which was shouldn't there be some mandatory testing? I would have thought that members of an amateur/pro fight club would be more interested in this, but it doesn't seem to be that much of a concern beyond getting tested and hoping for the best.

Obviously the mandatory testing isn't an end all be all due to incubation periods but at least it's a start.

Also, I've found school owners to not want to deal with the issue. I talked to 3 owners besides the pro fighter/trainer and they just won't discuss it beyond, "Don't do it if you're worried." Perhaps they worry about a decrease in membership if people start worrying about this.

[yenhoi]

Ringworm is more of an issue then people getting bad blood diseases. Driving to the academy to take lessons is more dangerous, not to mention getting a common cold or someone gives you BIRD FLU.

Id be more worried about the old dried blood, doesnt someone mop or otherwise clean up the place?

[brothernumber9]

It's an assumed risk. You (plural) know you are going to practice an activity that commonly leads to minor injuries among which are cuts and bloody noses and lips.
The liability lies primarily on ourselves.

If bloodborne pathogen testing were mandatory, who will pay for it?
If bloodborne pathogen testing were mandatory and someone were found positive for BTD, then what? Logically one would assume to not let that individual or those individuals to participate to that extremity. But then, what if that individual didn't want anyone else to know about their infection? What would be the legal ramifications with fairly recent private information laws concerning personal health? It really opens up alot of questions and issues, and not just on the issue of mandatory testing, but of general health risks and liabilities and who should be responsible for them, and who should be responsible for publicating information about them.

[neilhytholt]

Ringworm is more of an issue then people getting bad blood diseases. Driving to the academy to take lessons is more dangerous, not to mention getting a common cold or someone gives you BIRD FLU.

Id be more worried about the old dried blood, doesnt someone mop or otherwise clean up the place?

Actually, this people training with hepatitis appears to be a very common thing. I did a number of searches around this and the scary thing is doctors are recommending people with hepatitis take martial arts as a workout. ???

I wouldn't say driving there is more dangerous. ~5% of men and 2% of women around their late 20s to mid 30s have Hep-C, so it is prevalent. I also found reference to some teachers of martial arts who found out they had it, didn't know how they got it (perhaps training), but didn't stop training. I've let blood in martial arts class much more often that I have gotten into accidents.

The old dried blood is because the mat surface they have is porous. Even if they clean it, it would still be stained.

[yenhoi]

How many people died last year from Hep C that they got working out?

Its not an issue. Its not a [major] concern at any gym or dojo anywhere.

If you get cut or hurt during a "class" then clean it up properly and go about your life. If the place is unsanitary and gross, then dont train there and tell other people not to.

Isent there some numbers by smart doctors somewhere that say we will all have hep withen a few decades. (Like Dr Drew, the smartest doctor ever.)

When was the last time you heard about Hep C Affecting someones training like ringworm, a broken rib, or a bad accident on the way to class?

[neilhytholt]

How many people died last year from Hep C that they got working out?

Its not an issue. Its not a [major] concern at any gym or dojo anywhere.

If you get cut or hurt during a "class" then clean it up properly and go about your life. If the place is unsanitary and gross, then dont train there and tell other people not to.

Isent there some numbers by smart doctors somewhere that say we will all have hep withen a few decades. (Like Dr Drew, the smartest doctor ever.)

When was the last time you heard about Hep C Affecting someones training like ringworm, a broken rib, or a bad accident on the way to class?

Hep-C is a silent killer. You don't know when you have it. The only reason I found out about it was I went to a teacher that I didn't know was gay, and had a lot of gay students. I found out that a lot of students went to this teacher because they had HIV. When I talked to somebody at the clinic, he said I shouldn't be worrying about HIV but rather Hep-C. Have you ever watched a cop show where there is spilled blood? They freak out about Hep-C.

It does affect training. Like a lot of boxers get it, and they've had to cancel matches because of it.

If you're not interested, fine, whatever. Nobody is interested in this type of stuff which is why 25% of women and 20% of men now have herpes and they have ads now for medicine to suppress the symptoms on T.V.

[GeneChing]

A decade-old necromantic post

Alleged rapist James Deen sues mixed martial arts company to make a point about porn regulations
Sam Levin, The Guardian SAM LEVIN, THE GUARDIAN
17 MAY 2016 AT 15:04 ET


Adult performer James Deen (Screenshot/YouTube)

James Deen, the porn star accused of exposing performers to sexually transmitted infections, has filed a complaint against mixed martial arts company Bellator MMA in an effort to draw attention to what he described as the “unfair persecution of the adult industry”.

Deen, who also recently faced numerous accusations of sexual assault, was issued California state citations and fines in March for his production company’s alleged violations of condom and workplace regulations, with state officials claiming that his firm exposed performers to STIs.

Deen denied the allegations of labor violations, arguing that his performers have tested negative for infections and have voluntarily chosen not to wear condoms. He further accused California regulators of enacting a “political and moral agenda” against pornography and “sexual free-expression”.

In an apparent attempt to highlight how regulators disproportionately target and scrutinize the adult entertainment industry, Deen filed a state complaint against Bellator MMA and its owner Viacom, alleging that the companies have violated the same HIV regulations for which James Deen Productions was cited.

Sex workers should not be held to different standards under the same regulations as their mainstream counterparts

James Deen

The complaint with California’s division of occupational safety and health (Cal/OSHA) alleges that the mixed martial arts company has failed to comply with state policies aimed at preventing exposure to bloodborne pathogens, according to Deen’s announcement. In other words, Deen, who has no connection to professional fighting, is arguing that if the state contends that his adult entertainment firm has failed to protect performers from STIs, officials should also go after Bellator MMA and other forms of entertainment.

“You can’t pick and choose how to enforce the law,” Deen said in a statement Tuesday. “Sex workers should not be held to different standards under the same regulations as their mainstream counterparts.”

His company added in a press release, “While both the adult film and professional fighting industries require their performers to undergo testing for HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, and the like, only the adult industry is being fined and reprimanded.”

Typically, workers file Cal/OSHA complaints against their employers. But the investigation into the condom practices of Deen’s company stemmed from a complaint by the Aids Healthcare Foundation , a nonprofit that is critical of the porn industry and has advocated condom requirements .

Asked about the complaint against MMA, Michael Weinstein, founder of the Aids Healthcare Foundation, said he had not heard about Deen’s announcement, but added, “How great is the credibility of a man who has been accused of rape by eight women?”

Deen faced a string of sexual assault accusations from fellow porn actors last year – allegations that led industry groups to sever ties with the actor, who described the claims as “ false and defamatory ”.

Weinstein said his organization has targeted Deen because “he is the biggest star in the industry, and he’s been the most outspoken in fighting against condoms. So he’s put the spotlight on himself, and as citizens, we’re free to file complaints.”

Weinstein said the foundation’s claims against Deen were substantiated when Cal/OSHA announced penalties of $77,875 to his film production company, also known as Third Rock Enterprises.

“He’s violated the law, and that’s why they’re going after them. He’s just trying to change the subject,” Weinstein said, adding, “I don’t know what the rules are as it relates to mixed martial arts. I think that Cal/OSHA should try to protect people in the sport as much as possible.”

Representatives for Cal/OSHA, Bellator and Viacom did not immediately respond to requests for comment.