Master Health Condition

[Neeros]

If I want to learn combat, I would go to a master that is a very good fighter.

If I want to learn chi kung, I would go to a master that is very healthy and vital.

Ideally both combined into one.

[David Jamieson]

Isn't that generalization? I went to the hospital the other day and noticed no vacancies and there still nurses shortage here in Los Angeles, CA, so people get sick not because they led a healthy lifestyle. I have seen many people making the wrong choices, including myself, and indeed they died sooner than expected. I was talking about martial arts masters who end up in bad shape, crippled or big belly not because of genetics but because they don't follow a healthy lifestyle. I don't have stats but the fact that if you care about yourself you have more chances to live longer and in better shape. Common sense, no? It is true there is no guarantee and there are always exceptions. For future generations, they need to learn the cycle of human condition, I guess.

In the USA, people don't go to the hospital for treatment because they can't afford to.
Even with the new healthcare act.

Getting hospital or healthcare treatment in the USA is often cost prohibitive.

Kind of counter intuitive to being one of the most wealthy countries on the planet too I'd say.

But I'm Canadian. We figured it out.

Healthy lifestyle and punching people in the face or getting kicked in the guts don't seem to go together....

maybe you need a living arts master? Like a yoga guy or qigong guy? They live long times!

Great fighters usually have their lives cut short from some brain disease from too many concussions or, they don't develop other marketable skills and wallow with age along with their ever deteriorating fight skills.

Sounds crappy, but there you have it. You want to live longer? Stop fighting. Do more living arts and less martial arts. And don't worry! Fighting is only a small part of having Kung Fu!

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is a price your body pays for fighting prowess.
That is and always will be the case.
Sure there can be SOME exceptions to the rule BUT you don't base things on the minority or the exceptions to the rules.
reality is that fighting ability comes from fighting and fighting hurts and leaves scars of ALL types.

[MightyB]

I guess I was not clear in my posting, what I noticed is that many so called "masters" they are in pretty bad shape starting in their 50s. I thought someone who pretend or think is a master, regardless his pugilistic or fighting skills, they end up in good health as they follow cultivating a balanced life to the end of their cycle.

A martial arts master should look like someone who enjoys doing martial arts. An 80 year old won't be as in shape as a 20 year old, but if he or she is a kung fu master, they should invoke the "d@mn you're 80? fer realz?" response from you.

[David Jamieson]

See that outta shape guy with the glasses next to Sugar Ray? that's his trainer and coach. You know who else he trained and coached? Muhammad Ali.

Don't kid yourself with false ideals.

Training doesn't come from supermen, it comes from men who know how to help you. Sometimes from women.

[Jimbo]

Obviously, if you take better care of yourself, you have a greater chance of aging gracefully. But one cannot rule out the role that genetics and other factors can play in it as well. I'm 53, but am usually mistaken for around mid-30s; in my 30s, I was still often mistaken for a minor and being carded. Is that because I've practiced MA regularly for 40 years? Or genetics? Many other people have trained just as long and look every bit their ages.

I do like to keep in shape, though I long ago stopped being OCD about it. Someone with a long-term gym membership who uses it might grow old looking better than many MAists. Are they better masters because of it?

When I was young I used to be judgmental of others. If someone had a long-term injury that somehow affected their ability to train, I thought it was a cop-out. I thought they were making excuses for being lazy. Sure my body had wear and tear from years of training, but it always healed up or it wasn't as noticeable. Until I had a non-MA injury that became chronic. Most of the time other people won't notice, but I do. It does affect how you train. *It taught me to be far less judgmental of others.*

[MightyB]

A master will be in great shape relative to their age. If not, seek training elsewhere.

[mickey]

Greetings,

MightyB and mig: You have defined what makes a master for yourselves. Just find the person who meets your expectations and learn.

There will always be those who meet your expectations and there will always be those who don't. It all comes down to what a person is looking for.

Last year, I put up a thread about someone who passed away. Well, he was heavyset, fast, and could really move his body. He did not have that "look". And yes, he was a Master.

mickey

[MightyB]

Nope, beings that I'm always right - A Kung Fu Master must be in shape relative to their age. End of story. I'm right, you are wrong.

[MightyB]

I guess I was not clear in my posting, what I noticed is that many so called "masters" they are in pretty bad shape starting in their 50s. I thought someone who pretend or think is a master, regardless his pugilistic or fighting skills, they end up in good health as they follow cultivating a balanced life to the end of their cycle.

In the golden era of American Kung Fu (which ended in the late 90s) - there were no out of shape masters, 'cuz they were all legit old skool masters. Even now, there are no fatties (relative to their age) in my rolodex of who's who in American Kung Fu.

The key phrase is "relative to their age". Someone can be a tad overweight and still move. Anyone who practices what they preach and consistently gets out on the floor to instruct students will be in relatively good shape.

[mickey]

Greetings

"relatively good shape" I can accept because it allows room for those with injury. If they are injury free, I would have high expectations of them as well.

On a different note, we are actually on the verge of a Golden Era of kung fu in this country. We are slowly moving away from the phase of transmission to one of testing and research, looking seriously at what works and what does not. And we are beginning to look at what constitutes a real training program, one that gives results. This is a great time.

mickey

[Brian Kennedy]

I would add, in a broader context, a “master” in a Chinese or Taiwanese setting is a social status. It generally means you have a school, students, you have been around for a while, you are friends with other older teachers, you sit on various martial arts committees, maybe you published a book or DVDs and other people address you with honorific titles. That is what makes a master in a Chinese society. Whether you are in good physical shape or not is completely irrelevant.

Take care,
Brian

[MightyB]

I would add, in a broader context, a “master” in a Chinese or Taiwanese setting is a social status. It generally means you have a school, students, you have been around for a while, you are friends with other older teachers, you sit on various martial arts committees, maybe you published a book or DVDs and other people address you with honorific titles. That is what makes a master in a Chinese society. Whether you are in good physical shape or not is completely irrelevant.

Take care,
Brian

Are you talking about pre or post retirement? (referring to the formal ceremony) Because, if they're on the floor, they should be in reasonable shape for their age because they will have to demonstrate good kung fu for teaching purposes. If not - well some other masters may say their (meaning the lazy masters) kung fu is "Lop Sop".

[Brian Kennedy]

I am talking about both pre and post retirement. Note that I am not talking about what "should be", I am talking about "what is" (at least as far as I saw in Taiwan). I am a personal trainer and I would guess if you did the standard set of physical assessments to most Taiwanese masters-----the results would be average or maybe slightly below. Part of the problem is, by the time you are routinely referred to as "master", you are most likely in your late 40s or beyond.

take care,
Brian

[Jimbo]

I saw that in Taiwan as well, with the older masters. A small few were in very good shape for their ages, but most were not. This was true whether they were native Taiwanese or transplanted Mainland masters.

And as far as getting on the floor and teaching, most of the older masters I saw, while present during their classes, left the teaching duties almost exclusively to their senior (or more senior than the junior) students. Sometimes the old masters sat and watched the students practicing, and sometimes barely even watched. They weren't basket cases, but most looked long out of shape and practice. It's certainly a cultural and maybe even a generational thing.

As I mentioned, some old masters were in great shape for their ages. And I'd also seen a couple of old guys who were possibly former Beijing opera performers or acrobats, one balancing on one foot and performing 'foot towards the sky' (chao tian deng) with his foot over his head, and the other performing basic acrobatic stunts well into his 70s.

But most weren't in good shape for their ages. Especially most of the 'internal-style' masters I saw.