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Thread: TCMA Survival

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    The 20th century was one where we saw the rapid spread of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, TCMA, beginning in China with the founding of the Chin Woo and the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute

    [...]

    for it to survive will it be necessary for it to go back to becoming a family art/sect art as many styles were in before the 20th century?
    Chin Woo and Nanjing Kuoshu were all about cutting through the bs that had crept in because of isolated sects and rice bowl commercialization so that real TCMA would survive.

    Kiddie daycare, watered down curriculum and standards, catering to the customer to be a commercial success is not TCMA. It's what is destroying TCMA.

  2. #77
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    The owner of the school where we teach, and his top instructor both were originally from China and were trained there.

    They said that they don't see people teach the traditional way we do any more.

    Most people don't really want to learn TCMA.

    Even the owner said several times he wanted to learn some Mantis from us. I told him he's welcome any time. But he hasn't followed up yet.

    If even he's not going to learn, what guy off the street is going to want to learn?

    I do really appreciate that his schools are successful. It's because of him that we have such a nice place to train at.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    The owner of the school where we teach, and his top instructor both were originally from China and were trained there.

    They said that they don't see people teach the traditional way we do any more.

    Most people don't really want to learn TCMA.

    Even the owner said several times he wanted to learn some Mantis from us. I told him he's welcome any time. But he hasn't followed up yet.

    If even he's not going to learn, what guy off the street is going to want to learn?

    I do really appreciate that his schools are successful. It's because of him that we have such a nice place to train at.
    Most people don't even know what TCMA are. It's completely off the radar of what people seeking MA instruction are looking for, which nowadays is mostly MMA/BJJ (for teens and young adults) Krav Maga and kiddie karate. Most don't even know what 'kung fu' is, even though everyone has heard the term 'kung fu'. They use it interchangeably wth 'karate'.

    There is even less awareness of what CMA are now than back in the '70s and '80s. Which is ironic, because unlike in the past, nowadays information about virtually anything is available at the click of a button. Never mind that a lot of the info on TCMA online is BS, there is also a lot more good info than was available to anyone at any other time in history. Maybe it's BECAUSE seeing something is so easy now that many people make erroneous assumptions about things they know absolutely nothing about, such as various CMA. You would think there would be MORE awareness, but there really isn't.

  4. #79
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    I do believe there will always be a small few who will love and be dedicated to the various CMA systems. And a few of those few will pass those arts down. Some arts will have more followers and some will have fewer, but as long as an art is worth saving and developing, it will survive and continue evolving, hopefully for the better.

  5. #80
    I think one thing is, let's say you have twenty students. You teach them two hours of material, actual lesson, not talking push ups or anything else.

    That material, assuming it's about using it in fighting or body mechanics meant to be trained to do on the fly, will take many hours more of training to entrain.

    I know people who attend every class of their teacher, and have new material every day. And those people are not generally very good. They're fit. But they don't have skill.

    To run a school, you have to be running classes. Twenty people won't cut it. They are important to it if they are all about learning the system, but they don't need five classes a day, six days a week. They need training time.

    So some people see fitness classes as selling out, but fitness classes are beneficial to everyone, including the members learning the system.

    Further, the students need sessions that are not about being taught more, but working what they know.

    Further, if one is seeking to focus on a particular thing, then one class is not 'focusing'.

    Unless one can fill every session of the day with different students, they need to provide the students with the environment to improve their skills, and teaching is not all that is required.

    Even within a purely 'traditional' format, there is room for a huge diversity of classes that few take advantage of. One can complain all day about the loss of traditional conditioning exercises, but replacing lesson time with one day in some random month of traditional exercises doesn't really fill that gap as well as establishing a kung fu conditioning class would.

    It's very easy for us as teachers to confuse everything we say in class as giving the students a fair chance to experience traditional martial arts, when, in fact, sometimes it is us teachers most in the way of transmitting the art.
    Last edited by Faux Newbie; 10-03-2016 at 12:23 AM.

  6. #81
    As an example of some of what I'm getting at, at a sanda school, almost every class is going to include some time that you, on your own or with a partner, are working on things you work on EVERY class. Forever. Boxing, the same. Too many schools talk about the importance of their principles, but only train them on special days instead of finding ways of making them an aspect of every class.

    Even when you're working something else, you will end up doing a lot of the things you do every class. Forever.

    On the other end of what I'm getting at, if running a school, there is really no reason to expect everyone to train by themselves to entrain everything when you could give them the option of attending sessions meant for that in which you barely have to teach, but more get out of the way and let them train what you showed them.

    And there is absolutely no reason that one could not design a fitness program geared toward what one does. There is no one who does not benefit from basics. And there is no good argument for not endorsing other types of fitness programs in one's school, even not directly related to the style, but more to general fitness. It's an advantage to everyone. Athleticism is not tied to narrow workout regimes, especially in martial arts. I've seen too many brawlers who, if they just trained cardio, would actually be more naturally another kind of fighter.

  7. #82
    And a defense of the 'figurehead', the person who has a school with a lot of other teachers teaching other martial arts under him or her.

    I'm not familiar of one example that is not a person who doesn't absolutely love martial arts. They generally have some involvement in some of those classes, and enjoy the exposure to different ideas.

    Further, given that the imagery most of us were inspired by in joining in my era, these were movies depicting the shaolin temple, the jinwoo association, wudang, and emei, all places where there was not a style being taught, but many.

    As such, they are a good embodiment, in my opinion, of the spirit of kung fu.

    I know not a single lifelong practitioner of martial arts who only learned and respects one style, nor do I know any who were not shaped by more than one. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

    On the other hand, I know of a number of schools where the teacher, in their insistence on being the only authority, teaches not only the styles they are best at, but styles they are not notable in, schools that have a base from which they and their students(and the business) would and could benefit from having additional teachers teaching those styles. All in defiance of the 'traditional' conditions under which they learned, as in, learn from the true teachers of this style. Ahem, taiji.
    Last edited by Faux Newbie; 10-03-2016 at 12:48 AM.

  8. #83
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    3D motion capture to document kung fu

    You have to follow the link to see the embedded vid. It's kinda cool.

    Researchers are using 3D motion capture to document kung fu before it disappears
    WRITTEN BY Siyi Chen
    5 hours ago

    The art of kung fu is thousands of years old. But the methods to document it haven’t developed much. Knowledge of kung fu is traditionally shared orally, or with simple illustrations. But these old, basic methods are no longer sufficient to preserve this ancient art form, which is dying out because of a dwindling number of practitioners.
    So a team came up with a modern way of documenting kung fu, using 3D motion capture. International Guoshu Association, a non-profit organization, launched the “Hong Kong Martial Arts Living Archive” initiative, in collaboration with City University of Hong Kong, to document and study kung fu using digital technology. As you can see in the video above, they’ve started with the Hakka style of kung fu, which is prevalent in southern China. They say the technology can be applied to studying other schools of the practice.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    You have to follow the link to see the embedded vid. It's kinda cool.
    Kind of interesting.

    But it will take more than just capturing choreography for TCMA to survive.

    Just look what has happened with Tai Chi where so many practioners completely have lost connection with any martial context and intention.

  10. #85
    Greetings and thank you all for staying on topic.

    My journey in TCMA began with once a week class. I had to integrate the martial practice into my life from the beginning in order to make progress. This is something that advanced students usually face, if they ever do. I had the opportunity for solitary practice at the school during the week. The way I was going about it, it was not necessary. This is a very missing component to the martial path. There are too many dojo/dojang/kwoon dependent people out there. It is sad because the journey is truly from within.

    mickey

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings and thank you all for staying on topic.

    My journey in TCMA began with once a week class. I had to integrate the martial practice into my life from the beginning in order to make progress. This is something that advanced students usually face, if they ever do. I had the opportunity for solitary practice at the school during the week. The way I was going about it, it was not necessary. This is a very missing component to the martial path. There are too many dojo/dojang/kwoon dependent people out there. It is sad because the journey is truly from within.

    mickey
    Years ago, before I ever taught my own group, whenever my CLF sifu would go on a rare vacation, the job of helping to teach his then-Sunday class usually fell to me and another advanced student or students. We usually assisted him in teaching anyway. Sunday classes were normally crowded, but almost without exception, nobody else would show up if Sifu wasn't going to be there. It wasn't at all that we couldn't teach or that the other students didn't like the way we taught; it was a Sifu-dependency. "If Sifu won't be there, I'll take the day off." There is a reason why some students make noticeable improvements and development over a relatively short period of time, and some students are around for years and never seem to improve beyond a certain elementary level. It's pretty clear the latter type of students don't train away from the school, either.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-21-2016 at 01:43 PM.

  12. #87
    Greetings Jimbo,

    I agree with you. I have seen that as well.

    mickey

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    "If Sifu won't be there, I'll take the day off."

    [...]

    It's pretty clear the latter type of students don't train away from the school, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings Jimbo,

    I agree with you. I have seen that as well.

    mickey
    Some people don't need much excuse to skip class or training.

    Sometimes our teacher would say, "Next week is Xmas/Thanksgiving/New Year. Do you still want to come to the park?"

    We always said yes.

    On the days that it rained, some students would stand under the trees. A few of us just kept training in the rain.

    One year, the San Francisco Examiner newspaper wrote an article about things people do on Super Bowl Sunday instead of watching football. They mentioned practicing kung fu at Golden Gate Park, and showed a picture of the Panhandle.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Some people don't need much excuse to skip class or training.

    Sometimes our teacher would say, "Next week is Xmas/Thanksgiving/New Year. Do you still want to come to the park?"

    We always said yes.

    On the days that it rained, some students would stand under the trees. A few of us just kept training in the rain.

    One year, the San Francisco Examiner newspaper wrote an article about things people do on Super Bowl Sunday instead of watching football. They mentioned practicing kung fu at Golden Gate Park, and showed a picture of the Panhandle.
    That attitude is the breakfast, lunch and dinner of practice. For some it can be their ever demanding wife.

    mickey

  15. #90
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    REALITY CHECK: all TCMA can be mastered in 6 months. aint nobody got time to be milked for decades by some weird hippy nerd.

    REALITY CHECK: TCMA is not a popularity contest. if you wanna be popular you chose the wrong fukin hobby
    Last edited by bawang; 10-21-2016 at 07:07 PM.

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