TCMA Survival

[mickey]

Greetings,

The 20th century was one where we saw the rapid spread of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, TCMA, beginning in China with the founding of the Chin Woo and the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute and similar institutions and then blossoming with Chinese migration across the world, foreign interest in TCMA, and the opening of diplomatic relations with Mainland China. While it is nice that there is widespread interest in TCMA, for it to survive will it be necessary for it to go back to becoming a family art/sect art as many styles were in before the 20th century?

Please share your views on this.

mickey

[Cataphract]

No, instead it should become based on evidence. I agree there is a gray area where successful healing is hard to measure. But there are far too many quacks out there preying on the ill and desperate. Medical personnel must be accountable for their actions.

[mickey]

Greetings Cataphract,

I am talking about the martial, not the medical.

I do agree that the emerging alternative therapies need to be evidence based. There have been those that did produce evidence that were not embraced because of $$$. Gerson therapy is one.


mickey

[Cataphract]

I am talking about the martial, not the medical.

LOL

On topic, I don't think it makes much of a difference. The idea of the Kung Fu hero is deeply ingrained by Wuxia films now, so that there will never be a shortage of people practicing the forms. Arts like TaiChi changed fundamentally during the last 150 years and spread around the globe. Is it a traditional art? Is it a Chinese art? Maybe in a hundred years people will speak about "traditional American" MMA? I think what we will see is a lot cross pollination.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Greetings,

The 20th century was one where we saw the rapid spread of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, TCMA, beginning in China with the founding of the Chin Woo and the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute and similar institutions and then blossoming with Chinese migration across the world, foreign interest in TCMA, and the opening of diplomatic relations with Mainland China. While it is nice that there is widespread interest in TCMA, for it to survive will it be necessary for it to go back to becoming a family art/sect art as many styles were in before the 20th century?

Please share your views on this.

mickey

There will always be a place for TCMA as exercise in the mainstream BUT yes, I believe that in regards to fighting arts that TCMA will survive as "family styles" unless they take the sport route.

[David Jamieson]

If it's not practical for tactical it will not survive.
There is still room for growth and change.
That is the thing about a lot of traditional things, they kind of "break their own feet" and become anachronistic.
At some point, if you don't keep developing and working on an art, it dies out.

Having roots in tradition and being open to continued growth is good.
Thinking that it has all been done and is to stand like an ancient monument in defiance of time is kind of foolish.

For definitive proof of this, I present to you the modern world.

[MightyB]

For definitive proof of this, I present to you the modern world.

Did Atlantis Really Have Indoor Plumbing?

Video URL Below:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos...umbing/?no-ist

[David Jamieson]

Did Atlantis Really Have Indoor Plumbing?

Video URL Below:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos...umbing/?no-ist

lol.

As far as can be told, Atlantis was either a straight up myth, or it was the civilizations that existed in central america.
Tenochtitlan fits the description quite well. But no indoor plumbing.

[Jimbo]

Greetings,

The 20th century was one where we saw the rapid spread of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, TCMA, beginning in China with the founding of the Chin Woo and the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute and similar institutions and then blossoming with Chinese migration across the world, foreign interest in TCMA, and the opening of diplomatic relations with Mainland China. While it is nice that there is widespread interest in TCMA, for it to survive will it be necessary for it to go back to becoming a family art/sect art as many styles were in before the 20th century?

Please share your views on this.

mickey

I believe that TCMA systems can survive, but IMO they will never gain the mainstream popularity and acceptance of other categories of MA, such KMA and JMA, and especially the standard arts recognized in MMA; BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing and wrestling. Well, technically, BJJ IS a part of JMA, but that's another discussion. Historically, TCMA has been insular in comparison. Sure, there are successful Kung Fu franchise schools, but they're relatively rare, and many of those are actually Karate schools masquerading as TCMA. And many actual TCMA are not available everywhere like other MA.

And Kung Fu movies no longer inspire kids/young people to actively seek out Kung Fu training like they did in the '70s and '80s. It's a different world now. Young people want to do what their role models do, and more often than not, those role models are MMA fighters and other sports figures. For TCMA, that could be both good and bad. There must be an emphasis on the quality of students that DO come to TCMA and their development, over sheer quantity of students.

And yes, TCMA needs to continue to evolve to grow. Otherwise, fewer and fewer people will be willing to invest the considerable time, hard work and sacrifice for something they view as irrelevant and obsolete. Because whether their opinions are correct or not, the reality of declining interest/participation is still the same.

[MightyB]

I'm not sure it's accurate to say TCMA is dying. I think there is a challenge in defining the space or segment that TCMA is going to have to target (in the USA).

IMO TCMA classes can do a better job of attracting new students if the instructors figure out what niche they want to satisfy in the market. For example, I keep thinking about how Yoga is filling a need for people who want a semi spiritual traditional physical exercise and how authentic Tai Chi fits that same demographic. Yoga is extremely popular with millennials. So what could authentic tai chi instructors do to grow in the millennial market?

or look at the success of Shaolin in China. Are there (marketing) ideas that we could take from there to grow here?

Wushu / Gymnastics ... same demographic.

So again, the challenge is figuring out who is the ideal target customer, and how do we attract that customer?

[SteveLau]

Yes. I agree TCMA survival will be based on evidence (by Cataphract). So if more TCMA students participate in open tournaments, and end up with good result, not only will traditional art survive, it will long live and prosper.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[mooyingmantis]

Perhaps it is time to let some systems that have out lived their relevance die. Just make them museum pieces and move on.

[boxerbilly]

I made a post long ago. Telling you to keep your arts alive. Ill say it again. KEEP YOU ARTS ALIVE !

How you do it or what path you take to achieve that is of little importance. If you are a keeper of your art then the task falls on you, my friends. It's survival is simply up to you.

[SevenStar]

I'm not sure it's accurate to say TCMA is dying. I think there is a challenge in defining the space or segment that TCMA is going to have to target (in the USA).

IMO TCMA classes can do a better job of attracting new students if the instructors figure out what niche they want to satisfy in the market. For example, I keep thinking about how Yoga is filling a need for people who want a semi spiritual traditional physical exercise and how authentic Tai Chi fits that same demographic. Yoga is extremely popular with millennials. So what could authentic tai chi instructors do to grow in the millennial market?

or look at the success of Shaolin in China. Are there (marketing) ideas that we could take from there to grow here?

Wushu / Gymnastics ... same demographic.

So again, the challenge is figuring out who is the ideal target customer, and how do we attract that customer?

In terms of fitness and martial arts, it all follows a trend. the boxing / thai boxing gym I attend is the biggest in the city, not because he has world ranked bjj black belts and several fighters, not because of the success of the guys in competitions, but because he offers fitness kickboxing and the women eat it up. He has three facilities across the city now, and one of them offers nothing but fitness kickboxing because the classes are always full. When I taught Zumba at several of the fitness facilities, my classes were always packed. not because I am just that badass of an instructor, but because Zumba is a current fad. in the 80s there was a ninja fad. 90s was kung fu. most o the traditional schools in the city which flourished in the 90s are out of business now - that's not what people are looking for.

My Ngo Cho instructor and I were talking about this just recently. he has a handful of students, literally - like 5. In the year that I've been with him, I've seen four people begin then quit. I told him that getting more students would always be a problem because TCMA is not what's in right now. Now, if he put some of his people in the ring and they performed well, that would be good exposure and almost guaranteed business, but none of the students are interested in the ring. There is indeed that other demographic too - the health crowd, but they seem - at least here - to only gravitate towards yoga.

[Cataphract]

It works something like this. There is a new martial art in town with a capable and charismatic founder. He finds a hand full of exceptionally dedicated students. Together they reap exceptional results. The public takes notice and the first students start their own schools. Maybe there is a movie. Now the new martial art is a thing and the average student is not nearly as dedicated. Somehow it doesn't feel real. The six pack won't show. The cycle starts over. Judo, Aikido, TKD, Kenpo, WingTsun, KravMaga, MMA, you name it. All have been fads.

I think what I'm trying to say is, that being popular is slowly killing martial arts. Not the other way round.

A side note on Yoga and millenials. Yoga is sexy. You get to wear spandex pants while bending yourself into lascivious positions. I see more of an overlap with the belly button showing kickboxing demographic than the TaiChi folks.