Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 188

Thread: TCMA Survival

  1. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    If there were a TCMA program for school kids, which style/system would it be? And how would the school know what the standards are? If there were a school TKD group, there are clear ways to check the credentials of the prospective teacher, if he/she is certified by the WTF (not the Internet acronym) or whatever. TCMA are different. In many instances, the only way to vet a CMA teacher is for him to really demonstrate his knowledge and skill. How could school officials be made to understand or accept that, or even what that would entail?

    Again, which style? Or would there be a watered-down, simplified, generic system developed specifically for schools? Kind of like what happened around the 1930s, when karate was introduced to school children in Japan; the methods were modified/simplified for mass consumption, with certain martial aspects deleted from the curriculum.

    It would have to be clear that there are no religious connotations to it. North of where I live, there is a high-income school district that incorporated a yoga program for children, and there was a legal issue brought up by Christian parents convinced that the yoga program was teaching their kids 'Eastern values' contrary to their religion. Even though the school district and the kids themselves stated there was no religious indoctrination going on.
    style - who cares? the more the merrier, I'd say. let's say I have 3 schools and I teach them bak mei. at my other three schools I have someone teaching them southern mantis. at two other schools, I have someone teaching shuai chiao. that makes for an awesome mass demo for the parents and the schools. look at aftercare programs in schools now. for example in my city, there are programs that teach African dance, some teaching hip hop, some teaching zumba. doesn't matter what they are teaching and the students could really care less. they are doing something different, they are being active and many of those kids are getting exposure to other cultures and things they ordinarily would not have said exposure to. I was teaching cma. there are several schools here with people teaching tkd and karate.

    in terms of legitimacy of the instructor, there would need to be someone qualified to determine that if it were going to be a city wide, state wide, etc program.

    watered down can be a relative term and also would depend on the instructor. I wouldn't show them breaking applications and probably not locks. that is common - in judo kids are not allowed to arm bar either. it's a safety precaution. you aren't going to be teaching them an entire system, there isn't enough time. you don't have to water anything down, though. I can teach kids all of the punches, blocks, kicks, etc. explain basic principles and then show them a basic form. with only a couple of hours per week, a few months out of the year, that may be the most you get. kids that are involved multiple semesters will learn more. but they can all have a decent grasp of basics and learning a form gives them something to achieve.

    I agree with you on conveying the lack of religious connotation, however, I never had a single parent ask me about it. I thought that was odd.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  2. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Insurance would be a big issue when teaching KF at school, especially K-12. Some basic training in traditional CMA might not be good for very young children and could even be harmful to their development, such as heavy stance training, 3-star, etc. Plus, they would most likely hate such painful, boring training. It would pretty much have to be a very simplified introductory course, IMO. I'm not trying to be discouraging, but realistically, even if such a program could be implemented, it may or may not ensure long-term growth for TCMA.
    boring the kids is always a concern. attention span is too short. we never held a stance longer than 30 seconds. the ones who wanted to try for a minute, I would let them. I didn't have younger kids doing sparring, 3 star drills or anything contact related. I would argue that it DOES encourage growth. when they like it, they tell the parents, who then inquire. The demo had parents inquiring on their own. In addition, you have a lot of kids getting exposure to the arts this way. I taught about 250 - 300 kids a year.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,888
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    boring the kids is always a concern. attention span is too short. we never held a stance longer than 30 seconds. the ones who wanted to try for a minute, I would let them. I didn't have younger kids doing sparring, 3 star drills or anything contact related. I would argue that it DOES encourage growth. when they like it, they tell the parents, who then inquire. The demo had parents inquiring on their own. In addition, you have a lot of kids getting exposure to the arts this way. I taught about 250 - 300 kids a year.
    That is good.

    One definitely needs to have a special knack for relating to kids in regards to teaching MA. Admittedly, I do not. Back in the '70s when I was training karate, the way I was taught would be considered borderline abuse today, and would not be accepted. Back then, it was just the way it was, because MA schools were more adult-oriented at the time. Nowadays, kids are the bread-and-butter money students in (most?) MA schools, so that relatability is essential for a teacher. Which would be invaluable for introducing KF as part of a school activity.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-26-2016 at 03:53 PM.

  4. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    That is good.

    One definitely needs to have a special knack for relating to kids in regards to teaching MA. Admittedly, I do not. Back in the '70s when I was training karate, the way I was taught would be considered borderline abuse today, and would not be accepted. Back then, it was just the way it was, because MA schools were more adult-oriented at the time. Nowadays, kids are the bread-and-butter money students in (most?) MA schools, so that relatability is essential for a teacher. Which would be invaluable for introducing KF as part of a school activity.
    Agreed. I'm different with MY kids. they hold stances longer. they do more calisthenics. they do the repetition. I take them to the boxing gym. they do mitts and bag work with me and we will "spar" - they can hit me as hard as they want, I'll only tap them when I see openings.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #140
    if you teach kids to appreciate hard work they will appreciate hard work, they are malleable.

    theres nothing wrong with exploiting kids and teaching them garbage to milk money, as long as you uphold high standard for adults and look for special kids to teach real things
    Last edited by bawang; 10-27-2016 at 10:14 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  6. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    theres nothing wrong with exploiting kids and teaching them garbage to milk money
    The schools that do that, also promote those kids into "instructors" as part of the milking.

    The parents love it. You can see crowds of these proud parents bringing their kids to class and staying to video their little monks in training.

    Propagates garbage, and gives kf a bad name. Then we get endless forum discussions about why kf doesn't work.

    We've had more than one of this type of "instructor" join our group and have to start all over from square one.

  7. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    The schools that do that, also promote those kids into "instructors" as part of the milking.

    The parents love it. You can see crowds of these proud parents bringing their kids to class and staying to video their little monks in training.

    Propagates garbage, and gives kf a bad name. Then we get endless forum discussions about why kf doesn't work.

    We've had more than one of this type of "instructor" join our group and have to start all over from square one.
    well thats ur problem right der giving actual authority to those ppl

    if someone actually tries to make a career out of kung fu instruction with no higher education then theres no turning back. u gotta do wat u gotta do or wait tables.
    Last edited by bawang; 10-27-2016 at 10:54 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  8. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    if you teach kids to appreciate hard work they will appreciate hard work, they are malleable.
    This is true. My ****her was taking me with him on side jobs when I was 5 years old, I literally did manual labor for as long as I can remember. Everyone I knew who was raised like this ended up being ambitious and hardworking in life. On the other hand so many kids I've seen raised in front of TV's and video games have grown up as slackers, unambitious, living with parents in their 20's...The culture kids are raised in has a lot to do with it. The home culture too, not just the culture of the society.

    No reason kids shouldn't spar. Keep things under control, don't mismatch them. If one can't handle it, or doesn't want to, take him out. When one kid is completely dominate of the rest, have him spar with adults so he doesn't hurt the others. They appreciate that, it is recognition and motivation for them.

    In Thailand 8 year olds fight full pro rules, once a week. I would say they have proven that method of teaching as effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  9. #144
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,888
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    This is true. My ****her was taking me with him on side jobs when I was 5 years old, I literally did manual labor for as long as I can remember. Everyone I knew who was raised like this ended up being ambitious and hardworking in life. On the other hand so many kids I've seen raised in front of TV's and video games have grown up as slackers, unambitious, living with parents in their 20's...The culture kids are raised in has a lot to do with it. The home culture too, not just the culture of the society.

    No reason kids shouldn't spar. Keep things under control, don't mismatch them. If one can't handle it, or doesn't want to, take him out. When one kid is completely dominate of the rest, have him spar with adults so he doesn't hurt the others. They appreciate that, it is recognition and motivation for them.

    In Thailand 8 year olds fight full pro rules, once a week. I would say they have proven that method of teaching as effective.
    I agree with most of your points, but IMO the example of Thai kids fighting is incompatible. They fight pro from such a young age because they have no other options for themselves or for their families (parents, siblings) back home. It's not a hobby for them. Many (the vast majority?) will never become educated for any other profession, and their fighting careers are usually over in their 20s. After which they can hopefully become coaches, because very few (if any?) will ever become rich from it. So while it is a very effective method for teaching young kids to fight, it's not really comparable to teaching kung fu to kids who have many other activities and goals (education, career and recreational) in their lives.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-30-2016 at 08:18 AM.

  10. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    IMO the example of Thai kids fighting is incompatible.
    My point isn't that that is the ideal scenario, it's certainly not. My point is kids can appreciate hard work when they are raised in that culture.

    This thread is about TCMA surviving and the main concern everyone seems to have is watering it down. If you remove or water down the hard work aspect of Gong Fu, what's the point of preserving it? Gong Fu has to get over the quantity thing and focus on quality. Better for it to be a small, underground cult than to regress into some sort of TKD after school daycare.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  11. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    My point isn't that that is the ideal scenario, it's certainly not. My point is kids can appreciate hard work when they are raised in that culture.

    This thread is about TCMA surviving and the main concern everyone seems to have is watering it down. If you remove or water down the hard work aspect of Gong Fu, what's the point of preserving it? Gong Fu has to get over the quantity thing and focus on quality. Better for it to be a small, underground cult than to regress into some sort of TKD after school daycare.
    only selling point of kung fu for decades was that it was supposedly superior to western fighting with higher standards and rigorous training. to commercialize and casualize kung fu is to admit to FRAUD.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  12. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    only selling point of kung fu for decades was that it was supposedly superior to western fighting with higher standards and rigorous training. to commercialize and casualize kung fu is to admit to FRAUD.
    TKD is by far the most successful, commercialized martial art in the world. All it's accomplishments have been from good marketing and business savvy, not from fighting reputation. If you bring TCMA to that point, is there really anything traditional left to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  13. #148
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,888
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    My point isn't that that is the ideal scenario, it's certainly not. My point is kids can appreciate hard work when they are raised in that culture.

    This thread is about TCMA surviving and the main concern everyone seems to have is watering it down. If you remove or water down the hard work aspect of Gong Fu, what's the point of preserving it? Gong Fu has to get over the quantity thing and focus on quality. Better for it to be a small, underground cult than to regress into some sort of TKD after school daycare.
    This is one of the reasons why, when I was teaching, I only taught adults, 18+. Which might be viewed as a commercial 'weak point' as a teacher. I personally don't mind it at all if kung fu has only limited popularity, as long as there is quality. Obviously, quality trumps quantity every time, not only regarding numbers of students, but in the sheer amount of material to be taught/practiced.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-30-2016 at 05:33 PM.

  14. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    No reason kids shouldn't spar. Keep things under control, don't mismatch them. If one can't handle it, or doesn't want to, take him out. When one kid is completely dominate of the rest, have him spar with adults so he doesn't hurt the others. They appreciate that, it is recognition and motivation for them.

    In Thailand 8 year olds fight full pro rules, once a week. I would say they have proven that method of teaching as effective.
    Ordinarily, I'd agree, however in a school setting, that would be a no no. waivers or not, that one kid crying because he thinks he got hurt is all that is needed to shut a program down.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  15. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    My point isn't that that is the ideal scenario, it's certainly not. My point is kids can appreciate hard work when they are raised in that culture.

    This thread is about TCMA surviving and the main concern everyone seems to have is watering it down. If you remove or water down the hard work aspect of Gong Fu, what's the point of preserving it? Gong Fu has to get over the quantity thing and focus on quality. Better for it to be a small, underground cult than to regress into some sort of TKD after school daycare.

    1. there can be hard work done without aspects like sparring. They still work, they still sweat. but sparring and schools don't mix.

    2. the preservation here is in the spreading of knowledge of it's existence. You don't know what you don't know. These kids don't know a lot of these arts exist. They know about mma because it's all over the tv now. We're talking about a school program. There are always kids coming and going, classes are once or twice a week, about 45 mins - there is little chance of any kid learning an entire system in a school program. The purpose is not that. if you spark their interest, they may wish to continue training outside of the school at some point. by teaching this to 250 - 300 kids per year, that is several hundred more kids per year learning about Chinese arts, leaving an impression of it in their minds. If they want to pursue the arts later in life, they now know this is an option. "I remember I took kung fu in second grade" - that's where they are likely to return.

    3. the small underground cult dies. some styles probably should die out. Natural selection at play, I guess. but some styles that SHOULD be preserved are subject to that also, simply because they are not accessible.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •