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Thread: TCMA Survival

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    only selling point of kung fu for decades was that it was supposedly superior to western fighting with higher standards and rigorous training. to commercialize and casualize kung fu is to admit to FRAUD.
    Serious question - what is the selling point now? thai boxers, bjj guys, wrestlers and boxers train just as hard. perhaps not as much depth, but the training is as intense.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    Serious question - what is the selling point now? thai boxers, bjj guys, wrestlers and boxers train just as hard. perhaps not as much depth, but the training is as intense.
    NOTHING

    which is why kung fu as a subculture has died out already in the usa. which is as it should be, because western people in its current state should not be attracted to kung fu. only the right kind should.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    1. there can be hard work done without aspects like sparring. They still work, they still sweat. but sparring and schools don't mix.

    2. the preservation here is in the spreading of knowledge of it's existence. You don't know what you don't know. These kids don't know a lot of these arts exist. They know about mma because it's all over the tv now. We're talking about a school program. There are always kids coming and going, classes are once or twice a week, about 45 mins - there is little chance of any kid learning an entire system in a school program. The purpose is not that. if you spark their interest, they may wish to continue training outside of the school at some point. by teaching this to 250 - 300 kids per year, that is several hundred more kids per year learning about Chinese arts, leaving an impression of it in their minds. If they want to pursue the arts later in life, they now know this is an option. "I remember I took kung fu in second grade" - that's where they are likely to return.

    3. the small underground cult dies. some styles probably should die out. Natural selection at play, I guess. but some styles that SHOULD be preserved are subject to that also, simply because they are not accessible.
    Martial arts should not be taught in public schools. It is impossible to do so without watering it down to the point of worthlessness. Far better off letting them play dodgeball than to have kids who don't want to be there forced to stand in lines doing basics or memorize a form.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Martial arts should not be taught in public schools. It is impossible to do so without watering it down to the point of worthlessness. Far better off letting them play dodgeball than to have kids who don't want to be there forced to stand in lines doing basics or memorize a form.
    Being that I have conducted such a program, I wholeheartedly disagree. I have had kids from schools I taught in come up to me and thank me, who tell me they still practice what I taught them, who say they had no interest in anything physical before training with me, who pursued martial arts further because of my classes. They performed stance training, they did line drills up and down the floor, they did pushups, squats, etc. and as long as you know how to keep a kids attention, they do want to be there.

    I have a buddy who successfully ran capoeira classes in the school system here as well. There are also guys (though I don't know them personally) who teach karate and tkd.
    Last edited by SevenStar; 11-02-2016 at 07:56 AM.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #155
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    I doubt actual "family," but I do see the distinctive lines of divergence happening. And it seems a bit evident even within this thread: Progressive-Modern-TCMA and Traditional-TCMA.

    Seems we might need to come up with some updated classification names :P
    Yes, "Northwind" is my internet alias used for years that has lots to do with my main style, as well as other lil cool things - it just works. Wanna know my name? Ask me


    http://www.pathsatlanta.org

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I do believe there will always be a small few who will love and be dedicated to the various CMA systems. And a few of those few will pass those arts down. Some arts will have more followers and some will have fewer, but as long as an art is worth saving and developing, it will survive and continue evolving, hopefully for the better.
    That's how I see the long term survival of TCMA too Jimbo.

    I think the best approach for a serious practitioner is to not give a f*** about trying to find commercial success as a martial arts school owner and instead find a profitable day job to support their martial habit.

    A lot of commercial success is due to location. If you're in a city with a large population and you teach good sh** and have a visible and nice facility, you'll get students. Keeping them may be an issue - but you'll get them through the door. You need to learn how to teach and it's not simply being good at a martial art or having the best lineage. You also have to have a personality that people want to be around. The white eyebrow guy from Kill Bill made for a nice movie character, but anyone acting like that in real life probably wouldn't attract many students. The thing is to find balance. Personally, I wouldn't want to make a living teaching kids. That would suuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkk balls.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    That's how I see the long term survival of TCMA too Jimbo.

    I think the best approach for a serious practitioner is to not give a f*** about trying to find commercial success as a martial arts school owner and instead find a profitable day job to support their martial habit.
    Picked up 5 students in the past couple weeks, which was a big surprise for us.

    One of them is Korean and grew up in a martial arts family. His dad was an instructor and trained him from a young age for competition. He got out of martial arts(sucks when your dad is the teacher) for many years but wanted to train again.

    The student and his gf joined after he looked at 4 other schools.

    He said he could tell from our attention to detail when teaching that we would be the best school for them.

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    That's how I see the long term survival of TCMA too Jimbo.

    I think the best approach for a serious practitioner is to not give a f*** about trying to find commercial success as a martial arts school owner and instead find a profitable day job to support their martial habit.

    A lot of commercial success is due to location. If you're in a city with a large population and you teach good sh** and have a visible and nice facility, you'll get students. Keeping them may be an issue - but you'll get them through the door. You need to learn how to teach and it's not simply being good at a martial art or having the best lineage. You also have to have a personality that people want to be around. The white eyebrow guy from Kill Bill made for a nice movie character, but anyone acting like that in real life probably wouldn't attract many students. The thing is to find balance. Personally, I wouldn't want to make a living teaching kids. That would suuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkk balls.
    LOL. Kids can be pretty cool. But yeah they can be a handful. Just look at what Gene has to put up with when people pm him throwing tantrums and foul. Having to monitor bullies. And make sure no one crosses the line to far by posting hate **** because we are not totally out of the tissue box ***** period. But when we are.....DOOM.


    Really great post as a whole.

  9. #159
    Just kidding guys. I think you all are special.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Picked up 5 students in the past couple weeks, which was a big surprise for us.

    One of them is Korean and grew up in a martial arts family. His dad was an instructor and trained him from a young age for competition. He got out of martial arts(sucks when your dad is the teacher) for many years but wanted to train again.

    The student and his gf joined after he looked at 4 other schools.

    He said he could tell from our attention to detail when teaching that we would be the best school for them.
    im jelly bro californee sounds like immigrant heaven u even have multiple kung fu schools

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    im jelly bro californee sounds like immigrant heaven u even have multiple kung fu schools
    Doesn't matter how many schools if they are all strip mall day care centers.

    I thought you don't like dirty Cantonese cheaters selling fake rice bowl kf?

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Doesn't matter how many schools if they are all strip mall day care centers.

    I thought you don't like dirty Cantonese cheaters selling fake rice bowl kf?
    beggars cannot be choosers. i just ver ver ronery

    gene when r u gonna sponsor me for tigerclaw bro i wanna compete bro

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  13. #163
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    Your Chilese brothers welcome you here.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    That's how I see the long term survival of TCMA too Jimbo.

    I think the best approach for a serious practitioner is to not give a f*** about trying to find commercial success as a martial arts school owner and instead find a profitable day job to support their martial habit.

    A lot of commercial success is due to location. If you're in a city with a large population and you teach good sh** and have a visible and nice facility, you'll get students. Keeping them may be an issue - but you'll get them through the door. You need to learn how to teach and it's not simply being good at a martial art or having the best lineage. You also have to have a personality that people want to be around. The white eyebrow guy from Kill Bill made for a nice movie character, but anyone acting like that in real life probably wouldn't attract many students. The thing is to find balance. Personally, I wouldn't want to make a living teaching kids. That would suuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkk balls.
    Good points, MightyB.

    Most of the successful MA schools that aren't MMA or BJJ that I see are dominated by kiddie classes. I'm not really certain when that started becoming the norm. The 1990s? Post-2K? I remember when MA was adult-dominated. I don't know if many MA schools, Chinese style or otherwise, still have large, strong adult classes. There are several branch schools of a very visible kung fu franchise in my county that seem very commercially successful. They also have all the bells and whistles in terms of facilities. Many people like that, plus the "professionalism". But personally I would never have trained there, for various personal reasons.

    I sometimes see my next-door neighbors' kids in their karate uniforms after school. The dojang they go to is a large one that seems to cater strictly to kids. Nobody in my neighborhood has any idea that I even train MA, much less used to teach it.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-22-2016 at 08:51 PM.

  15. #165
    It may be a bit late to jump in now on this but the topic of TCMA survival is very interesting and important.

    I have been teaching CMA since the early 90's and the times have really changed. It is true what MightyB said, personality is very Important. I have seen great martial artist try teaching but they don't really like people. Having a school is completely different than teaching someone personally. You are in the people business when you open a school. I read somewhere that "people don't really care what you know until they know you care." Therefore, you need to have an inviting personality in order to have people keep their interest and keep coming back to class.

    I also agree with MightyB that making a living teaching kids suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks! Only adults can understand the amount of effort required in the regular practice of the cma. Therefore, the survival is based on how many adults we can inspirer to commit to the learning and practice. I think that many people try MMA or BJJ because they think it is something they can learn and use immediately, unlike the traditional arts that take a long time. I believe that MMA and BJJ is starting to slowly lose it's momentum. People are starting to realize that to gain any real skills requires hard work, time and effort, regardless of style.

    So, back to the question, "how does the TCMA survive for future generations to learn?" It MUST BE TAUGHT. Doesn't matter if it is in the park, a basement, a garage, or a location. Of course a location will require the most work. People ask me all the time that they want to open a school and how should they go about it. My answer is always the same, start small. Start in your garage and then move into a small location once you have a enough "paying" students to afford a place. The problem is most people want to start with a nice big location. They believe that big locations will bring in a lot of students, but that is just not true. Big locations cost big $$$ and require a lot of work. It is a lot easier if you already have a good team of strong supporting students that will help you grow and maintain a big $$$ location. So, start small and grow from there.

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