TCMA Survival

[bawang]

wat will happen is i would go drinking and laughing with shrimp boy (theoretically non imprison) while you tail awkwardly in the background.

if u ever want to learn real plum flower real five elements bow down to me i will teach free. but you must first lose 50 lb

lol @ wanna be urban hip hop clf wankster. i was made honorary black by black hebrew israelites. my policy teach all black brown brothers free.

[hskwarrior]

wat will happen is i would go drinking and laughing with shrimp boy (theoretically non imprison) while you tail awkwardly in the background.

If u ever want to learn real plum flower real five elements bow down to me i will teach free. But you must first lose 50 lb

come to sf and show me

[bawang]

on my way in my helicopter right now

[hskwarrior]

lol @ wanna be urban hip hop clf wankster. I was made honorary black by black hebrew israelites.

i don't give a fukk about your ethnicity. I want you to come see my belly up close and in person

[mickey]

Gentlemen,

Please stay on topic.

mickey

[-N-]

This will be better than the Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man fight.

Some day it will become a movie.

Title same as this thread.

[mickey]

Greetings,

-N-,

I believe thread starters should oversee their threads and not leave it all to the moderators.

Peace,

mickey

[SevenStar]

I'm not sure it's accurate to say TCMA is dying. I think there is a challenge in defining the space or segment that TCMA is going to have to target (in the USA).

IMO TCMA classes can do a better job of attracting new students if the instructors figure out what niche they want to satisfy in the market. For example, I keep thinking about how Yoga is filling a need for people who want a semi spiritual traditional physical exercise and how authentic Tai Chi fits that same demographic. Yoga is extremely popular with millennials. So what could authentic tai chi instructors do to grow in the millennial market?

or look at the success of Shaolin in China. Are there (marketing) ideas that we could take from there to grow here?

Wushu / Gymnastics ... same demographic.

So again, the challenge is figuring out who is the ideal target customer, and how do we attract that customer?

In terms of fitness and martial arts, it all follows a trend. the boxing / thai boxing gym I attend is the biggest in the city, not because he has world ranked bjj black belts and several fighters, not because of the success of the guys in competitions, but because he offers fitness kickboxing and the women eat it up. He has three facilities across the city now, and one of them offers nothing but fitness kickboxing because the classes are always full. When I taught Zumba at several of the fitness facilities, my classes were always packed. not because I am just that badass of an instructor, but because Zumba is a current fad. in the 80s there was a ninja fad. 90s was kung fu. most o the traditional schools in the city which flourished in the 90s are out of business now - that's not what people are looking for.

My Ngo Cho instructor and I were talking about this just recently. he has a handful of students, literally - like 5. In the year that I've been with him, I've seen four people begin then quit. I told him that getting more students would always be a problem because TCMA is not what's in right now. Now, if he put some of his people in the ring and they performed well, that would be good exposure and almost guaranteed business, but none of the students are interested in the ring. There is indeed that other demographic too - the health crowd, but they seem - at least here - to only gravitate towards yoga.

[SevenStar]

There are fewer manufacturers of traditional weapons and gear at an affordable price. Most have gone for modern wushu gear or very high end.

Nevertheless, here's a newspiece that thinks TCMA is on the decline in HK:

speaking of which, I REALLY need a heavy horse cutter and a heavy kwan dao. I have been training with a 25lb kwan dao, so now I need one of my own - I don't want wushu steel. Gene, can't you just bat your eyelashes at some manufacturer and have them make just one and then not charge me an arm and a leg?

[SevenStar]

One way of simplifying is removing the layers of excess that accumulate in a system over a few generations. People add forms and drills from other styles, invent their own, systems become bloated and deal more with memorizing and retaining than actual function.

If a system was a legitimate fighting system it will be based on core principals that will probably be universal to all real fighting systems. From there you focus on the aspects that make it unique, or give it it's flavor...the theory and application of the methods. There is no need to pass on every thing you learned, or retain everything you were taught.....if you get to the bones of an art, you have much more than would by collecting and expanding a system.

yes, I think that is definitely part of it. "my teacher wanted to keep this form alive," "this form has been passed down for 200 years, but nobody knows who originally created it," translates to a style going from having 7 forms to having 37. This will change the focus to simply learning forms.

[Cataphract]

It works something like this. There is a new martial art in town with a capable and charismatic founder. He finds a hand full of exceptionally dedicated students. Together they reap exceptional results. The public takes notice and the first students start their own schools. Maybe there is a movie. Now the new martial art is a thing and the average student is not nearly as dedicated. Somehow it doesn't feel real. The six pack won't show. The cycle starts over. Judo, Aikido, TKD, Kenpo, WingTsun, KravMaga, MMA, you name it. All have been fads.

I think what I'm trying to say is, that being popular is slowly killing martial arts. Not the other way round.

A side note on Yoga and millenials. Yoga is sexy. You get to wear spandex pants while bending yourself into lascivious positions. I see more of an overlap with the belly button showing kickboxing demographic than the TaiChi folks.

[-N-]

[...] that being popular is slowly killing martial arts.

That's for sure.

[SevenStar]

I disagree there. popularity can kill the arts if there is no standard for measuring what is taught - THAT can kill traditional styles. The school I attend of course has students that aren't as dedicated and also has a lot of fighters, but even those who are not as dedicated are very capable. popularity plays a part in ensuring quality, because people can weed out the BS schools. it's harder to do that with a traditional styles as they aren't as popular. In all honesty, I can't see the trend switching back to TMA unless several TMA suddenly start performing well in MMA events, as that has been the fad for over 20 years now.

[bawang]

good schools utilize popularity by employing meat grinder/gold sifting system. bad schools utilize popularity by commercialization

[Jimbo]

It works something like this. There is a new martial art in town with a capable and charismatic founder. He finds a hand full of exceptionally dedicated students. Together they reap exceptional results. The public takes notice and the first students start their own schools. Maybe there is a movie. Now the new martial art is a thing and the average student is not nearly as dedicated. Somehow it doesn't feel real. The six pack won't show. The cycle starts over. Judo, Aikido, TKD, Kenpo, WingTsun, KravMaga, MMA, you name it. All have been fads.

I think what I'm trying to say is, that being popular is slowly killing martial arts. Not the other way round.

I both agree and disagree.

I think when MA become too closed off and specialized, they begin going away from their original purpose and start to deteriorate. Clear examples are Asian MA in the Olympics, such as TKD (the biggest example) and judo. TKD, or at least the Olympic style, has dropped the quality immensely. I won't be surprised if karate goes all to hell too, once it's established in the Olympics.

Compared to other categories of MA, CMA (except for Taiji and maybe Wing Chun) have never been really popular among most in the West who are interested in MA. Always has been and will likely always be the case. Even more so now with the high popularity of MMA/BJJ/MT. MMA and its associated arts do not seem to be a short-lived fad like others (Ninjutsu, 'kung fu', etc.). Because it's already gained a foothold as a legitimate, major sport. In my area, Kenpo was king for decades, until maybe the late 90s/early 2000s. It dominated the MA scene. It's still alive, but now you barely hear a peep about it. Now MMA and its associated arts are king, especially BJJ.

The various CMA will always have a smaller following than MMA/related arts, TKD, various karate, etc., at least in the West. Even in Taiwan, TKD was king, not CMA. Maybe it still is, but I've heard that MMA has gained a foothold there, too. As always, the survival of CMA will have to depend on a relatively small number of quality teachers and practitioners, and not quantity. In most every MA, the vast majority of students in a school at any given time will not excel at it or stay with it. Even most who do develop some skill and start becoming good at it will eventually stop training MA altogether, as other interests and responsibilities, as well as circumstances, enter their lives and become their main focus. This is also true of most people who go to train in MMA gyms.