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Thread: TCMA Survival

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    As always, the survival of CMA will have to depend on a relatively small number of quality teachers and practitioners, and not quantity. In most every MA, the vast majority of students in a school at any given time will not excel at it or stay with it. Even most who do develop some skill and start becoming good at it will eventually stop training MA altogether, as other interests and responsibilities, as well as circumstances, enter their lives and become their main focus.
    That's the reality.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    I disagree there. popularity can kill the arts if there is no standard for measuring what is taught - THAT can kill traditional styles.
    We partner with a local kung fu school and teach out of their facilities.

    The owner has two schools. The one we are at has 55 classes a week. We are 3 of those classes.

    They teach modern Shaolin, kickboxing, tai chi, wushu. The school has 13 full height heavy bags, a ring, a practice floor, does kiddie afterschool programs as well as adult classes.

    We teach Mantis and have just a handful of students. There's no way we could have a facility that nice teaching what we teach.

    The owner was just telling us today that we might have a new student for our Mantis class. He tells prospective students that the kickboxing and Shaolin programs are easier, and if they want something more serious, sign up for the Mantis program. We don't get many takers.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    We partner with a local kung fu school and teach out of their facilities.

    The owner has two schools. The one we are at has 55 classes a week. We are 3 of those classes.

    They teach modern Shaolin, kickboxing, tai chi, wushu. The school has 13 full height heavy bags, a ring, a practice floor, does kiddie afterschool programs as well as adult classes.

    We teach Mantis and have just a handful of students. There's no way we could have a facility that nice teaching what we teach.

    The owner was just telling us today that we might have a new student for our Mantis class. He tells prospective students that the kickboxing and Shaolin programs are easier, and if they want something more serious, sign up for the Mantis program. We don't get many takers.
    Do the majority of the prospects come looking for kickboxing or shaolin / wushu / tai chi?
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

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  4. #64
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    Well, at the branch we are at there are 33 children's kungfu classes, 7 adult kung fu classes, and 4 kick boxing classes.

    I think the majority of the kickboxing people are also in their kung fu classes.

    My impression is that most people who join or have their kids join, don't specifically have a particular style or system in mind to learn.

  5. #65
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    We had a TKD blackbelt join and leave after a few weeks. Same for another former TKD student. Had a few Wing Chun people join then leave. Same with a karate and supposedly former South American special forces guy. Some Muy Thai guy came for a couple classes.

    We've had some of their instructors and students join our class. Most have left due to other life priorities.

  6. #66
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    if you teach a lot of forms the qi mosquitos that come and go benefit. they take a few classes buy your form, suck your energy then go home practice their forms.

    if you teach sparring the floaters spar one time go away and benefit nothing. but you spar every time so you benefit. you suck their qi.

    Honorary African American
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  7. #67
    In my experience, a lot of what SevenStar said is spot on. You can't fill a class with people who have some desire to learn your actual kung fu style in most cases. A few experienced people might, by word of mouth come in, and that's good, but you'll never fill a class with people who are looking to be studying some specific style.

    I think too much emphasis is spent on acculturating students to being defenders of the line, and too little spent on measurable progress in many cases.

    Most people are trying it. For most, it might be six months, or a year. There's nothing wrong with that, and teachers who sum this up as a lack of discipline are risking burning bridges and forgetting all the hobbies they may have decided weren't for them.

    Many of these fitness classes can be good gateways to giving students some basic introductions and some good exercise, when they are well designed.

    Also, for the students who actually devote to the kung fu classes, teachers need to recognize that students now are far more likely to be exposed to any weaknesses in their training much earlier than some did in the past due to social networking.

    Sometimes it's important to go through the process of looking over the beginning syllabus and question whether someone doing exactly what it says will have, at least, a minor competence in functional footwork and rational defenses and strikes after a short time.

    Is every defense in the syllabus against a jab and a cross? Why?

    Is there defenses where the jab is stuffed, and the attacker is supposed to cross anyway? Why?

    Am I showing techniques in class that spontaneously occurred to me over the weekend without repeated testing against increasing pressure to make sure it's worth training, and without questioning whether there is something important I've been meaning to show them? Why?

    Do I 'know my enemy', not literally, of course, but am I well versed in what other styles are actually about, have I made myself aware of more than what people say about them, and do I avoid teaching 'defense against a boxer' that shows no understanding of what boxers actually do, for instance?

    Are the elements of training there to train students, or to make them feel rewarded for being shown them? Why?

    Am I expecting students to just come to my door, and only serious students? Why?

    Are they learning a system that knowledge of will bring out a respect of the system in them, or are they being taught to respect the system, but could not say more than talking points about what the system truly is? Why?

    Do they routinely practice defenses against the most common attacks in different ways? Do they routinely practice weapon sparring drills(as in, basic defenses, scripted action, but not scripted timing or footwork), or is that only practiced once in a while or not at all?

    Most of the people who are in forms schools maybe never are going to have the prettiest forms, but they feel inspired by students around them who do, and they may take note of what those students are doing and pick it up and even improve it by finding how it can work for them. Schools that focus on applied fighting skills are the same way.

    Quality students who don't strut like pea****s do a lot for a school. Students who strut like pea****s due to their rank/status will attract people who are more concerned with that status than their skills, and the moment they think their skills are good, they will peak and so may the school.

    And, related to that, as an instructor, am I strutting like a pea****? Is is a push hands lesson, or is it an excuse for me to talk a lot and show off, with little real learning or practice going on for the students?

    If they do the technique correct on me, does it work without me countering it? If not, why?
    Last edited by Faux Newbie; 09-27-2016 at 10:57 PM.

  8. #68
    Greetings,

    A classmate once shared that to open a commercial school, you have to create an inside track. There will be those who you try to transmit the at to and there will be those who pay the rent. I did not like the thought of treating people like that. Now, I think he may have had a point. Creating an inside track gives what you are teaching value beyond the generic, making it an attractive feature. Unfortunately, it can completely alienate those who are serious about learning something and it can become a petri dish for cultish behaviors. So, even if the overhead is low for a commercial school, the challenge to fully transmit the art is still there.


    mickey

  9. #69
    To make it commercially you need to give your client what they want ! That is not always what they need. If ten guys show up wanting self defense and you throw them into traditional training 9 maybe all 10 will walk. If they want to spar and your school does limited time on that or limits what they are allowed to do . They will walk. People pay for what they want.

    As others pointed out. Most students will be of the 3-6-9 month variety. The longer you give them what they want the longer they keep paying. These are not people interested in the whole art as you know it. But they are dollars that EXPECT what they want in return for their investment. They are the ones that keep your door open. Otherwise teach out of you garage to 5 guys. You'll make 20-30 bucks a night when you teach.

    Young tiny children are what turns dollars in the karate classes. Most stick to the 3 year plan because parents signed a contract. Most hate it. Are miserable. Cry. Don't pay attention. Talk back. Cant tell the right fro their left. Are afraid. Maybe a bully. Those are the real dollar signs for most traditional schools around here.
    But the payee got what they want. Tubby Timmy and Meek Mark are finally out of the house and doing something physical and you have been hired on as the PT babysitter. Seems inglorious. But then, more than a few measure glory through their bank account and are very happy to be of service. Millions have been made teaching kids.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Young tiny children are what turns dollars in the karate classes. Most stick to the 3 year plan because parents signed a contract. Most hate it. Are miserable. Cry. Don't pay attention. Talk back. Cant tell the right fro their left. Are afraid. Maybe a bully. Those are the real dollar signs for most traditional schools around here.
    But the payee got what they want. Tubby Timmy and Meek Mark are finally out of the house and doing something physical and you have been hired on as the PT babysitter. Seems inglorious. But then, more than a few measure glory through their bank account and are very happy to be of service. Millions have been made teaching kids.
    Greetings Billy,

    Unfortunately, this is disgustingly true. So we will never be without the Mcdojo. They serve a purpose.

    I agree with teaching out of the garage if you want to keep it serious.


    mickey

  11. #71
    Another huge killer of business that seems to predominate MA that don't have a sporting aspect to it. The teachers hold back. I always believe that is because they don't want anyone better than them in their school. BIG MISTAKE !!! Your ego needs to check itself at the door. As a teacher your ultimate goal should be to make students better than you ever where. Period.

    But one see's many teachers with the artistic gi/gown walking around like top dog best killer in the class , etc.

    If the NFL hired coaches like that football would always suck. Same for basketball. Boxing. Etc. Understand, you are no longer the player. You are teaching players to be their best. Ideally better than you. That may never happen to most but if your dedicated students after a good length of time are not besting you in some areas, I promise you it is not them.

  12. #72
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    Great points, guys!

    I taught my own group for 4 years, but stopped teaching ten years ago. I came to the realization that I'm a much better practitioner than a teacher. While admittedly I am very competent at teaching MA, I was NOT very competent, nor comfortable at, promoting myself/my art commercially.

    I would imagine that's true of a lot of people who intend to teach MA. Your business acumen must be at least as highly developed as your knowledge and ability at MA, even more so. You see it a lot; someone with fairly mediocre MA ability and understanding who runs a highly successful chain of commercial schools, because he is a very good businessman. He understands how to promote and market himself and his product. Most likely hires different 'coaches' to teach different aspects of MA for him (grappling, sanda, competitive forms, point tag, push hands, etc.), and he himself essentially becomes a figurehead. His schools will have very professional facilities, have contracts, and are open all day every day. He has no other profession/day job; this IS his livelihood. The school also has dedicated top students who will also make MA their livelihood, take professional business courses (the same that their teacher did), and have an organized business plan to appeal to all types of students, especially kids. They gain experience in the business and in teaching, then go on to open their own branch schools.

    I lacked that business savvy, which is why I never had a "brick and mortar" location. My core group was small, but remained steady for the 4 years. They included two black belts in Goju-ryu (coincidentally; both were from different schools). Others came and went. But I couldn't grow my school beyond a core group. I did not understand how to effectively advertise myself or my services. I did not open my teachings to people under 18. I did have my students occasionally enter competitions when they came around, with varying success. Actually, some did very well; one won a championship her first or second time out.

    IMO and experience, being a teacher is a LOT harder than being a student. If only instructing, sparring, correcting, etc., we're all there is to it, yes it would be simple. But in reality, to really be a successful teacher, especially nowadays, requires knowledge and competence in MANY things. Also, passing down an art isn't for everyone. It's a lot of time and responsibility that not everyone enjoys taking on. I learned a lot and grew a lot as a MAist from my experience as a teacher. But I personally never felt comfortable as 'Sifu', and never intended on making MA my career.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-28-2016 at 08:21 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Great points, guys!

    I taught my own group for 4 years, but stopped teaching ten years ago. I came to the realization that I'm a much better practitioner than a teacher. While admittedly I am very competent at teaching MA, I was NOT very competent, nor comfortable at, promoting myself/my art commercially.

    I would imagine that's true of a lot of people who intend to teach MA. Your business acumen must be at least as highly developed as your knowledge and ability at MA, even more so. You see it a lot; someone with fairly mediocre MA ability and understanding who runs a highly successful chain of commercial schools, because he is a very good businessman. He understands how to promote and market himself and his product. Most likely hires different 'coaches' to teach different aspects of MA for him (grappling, sanda, competitive forms, point tag, push hands, etc.), and he himself essentially becomes a figurehead. His schools will have very professional facilities, have contracts, and are open all day every day. He has no other profession/day job; this IS his livelihood. The school also has dedicated top students who will also make MA their livelihood, take professional business courses (the same that their teacher did), and have an organized business plan to appeal to all types of students, especially kids. They gain experience in the business and in teaching, then go on to open their own branch schools.

    I lacked that business savvy, which is why I never had a "brick and mortar" location. My core group was small, but remained steady for the 4 years. They included two black belts in Goju-ryu (coincidentally; both were from different schools). Others came and went. But I couldn't grow my school beyond a core group. I did not understand how to effectively advertise myself or my services. I did not open my teachings to people under 18. I did have my students occasionally enter competitions when they came around, with varying success. Actually, some did very well; one won a championship her first or second time out.

    IMO and experience, being a teacher is a LOT harder than being a student. If only instructing, sparring, correcting, etc., we're all there is to it, yes it would be simple. But in reality, to really be a successful teacher, especially nowadays, requires knowledge and competence in MANY things. Also, passing down an art isn't for everyone. It's a lot of time and responsibility that not everyone enjoys taking on. I learned a lot and grew a lot as a MAist from my experience as a teacher. But I personally never felt comfortable as 'Sifu', and never intended on making MA my career.
    Much wisdom in this post.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #74
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    sparring erry day keeps the crazies away

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  15. #75
    You just attract a different kind of crazy. Unless the teacher is of the benevolent dictator type and has a really close eye on everything.

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