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Thread: Kung Fu Quest

  1. #1

    Kung Fu Quest

    Those of you who know me know that I have trained traditional styles before but have a preference for the methods of muay thai and judo. I posted several months ago that I returned to the traditional arts (No particular reason, I still go to the boxing gym as well) - so I'm posting what my past several months has been thus far.

    I found an instructor of Ngo Cho. He is from a legit lineage and has a handful of students. there is one other guy who trains with me. He is newer, so we are slow on things like sparring, which is fine with me because in addition to giving him that chance to learn and get comfortable with sparring, it gives me the time to try and apply what I am learning to sparring.

    Weapons: I have learned three weapon forms and am learning a two man set for a fourth weapon
    broadsword
    horse cutter
    kwan dao
    two man staff set

    empty hand forms I have learned so far are not Ngo Cho forms, I think, but more so forms that chee kim thong passed on to his students for preservation purposes.
    ckt opening (from what I've seen, the different styles around Quanzhou seem to have differing yet similar openings)
    liuhebafa - looks like none I have ever seen before, but I see crane and ngo cho concepts in it, so it's definitely different
    luohan - my love of judo had been great with this one, as the form has several throws that I was able to pinpoint from my judo experience
    tai chor samhien - this one actually is a Ngo Cho form, and as the name implies, is a san chin form. these forms appear to be the origin of the san chin forms in goju, shorin, uechi, etc.

    concepts I am learning thus far:
    floating
    sinking
    swallowing (absorbing)
    spitting (rejecting)
    spiraling
    shaking

    due to judo, I think I a decent grasp of float, absorb and reject. karate and thai boxing have spiraling, but sinking and shaking are what I'm trying to get a better understanding of using and applying.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  2. #2
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    Cool.

    Not Ngo Cho here, but we compare sinking to Dempsey's drop step. And use with both offense and defense.

  3. #3
    okay - that would explain some of the stomping. instead of a simple stomp, dropping the weight as with the drop step jab.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  4. #4
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    Yes. we drop our weight with our punches and also our kicks.

    If we are neutralizing an attack, we contact and sink instead of just using isolated arm movement.

    We always have to tell our students, "more body, less arm". Also have to remind them to rebound/float from the sink.

    Sinking is used with weapons too. If someone thrusts with a spear or staff, you can use your spear or staff to intercept, coil, and bind, and use sinking to generate force to disperse the attack or disarm. Coiling uses dan tian spiraling to maneuver your weapon to capture his.

    One type of shaking can be when you spiral, sink, and extend with relaxed explosive movement. Don't know if that is same as in Ngo Cho.

  5. #5
    what exercises do you guys use to develop these? your description of the shaking sounds similar to what is seen in forms - the rotation and sinking as a strike is performed. not as much upper torso rotation as with boxing, though - the upper torso stays more square.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  6. #6
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    For us, we do the torso rotation too. Though if we make contact sooner than later, the torso may be more square.

    We just train the body mechanics whether doing forms, drills, hitting the heavy bag, or sparring.

    Sometimes a student needs some help to recognize the body feel of the power generation, so we'll coach and adjust according to what seems to be the problem.

    Lately I've been doing isolated fundamentals with 2 handed Dai Do and with spear to clean up my sinking, spiraling, and shaking. Mainly because we are teaching 2 handed sword right now.

    Dai Do is heavy, so can't be used effectively with just brute force. You need all of those coordinated powers so that you're not fighting your own weapon.

  7. #7
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    do whatever makes you happy and feel fun. life is too short

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Dai Do is heavy, so can't be used effectively with just brute force. You need all of those coordinated powers so that you're not fighting your own weapon.

    definitely. I train with a 25 lb kwan dao. using only your arms to do a form with that is grueling. you have to use your body. Also, I saw a vid of a crane practitioner shaking a staff to train shaking power. I am guessing the principle is similar.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  9. #9
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    da dao is only use with brute force. one hit kills. if you miss draw sidearm

    only real on foot da dao techniques are mountain crush egg and iron broom. everything else flower

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  10. #10
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    Cut straight down to head. Angle cut to neck. Angle cut to body. Angle cut to leg. Reverse cut under the hands or crotch.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    da dao is only use with brute force. one hit kills. if you miss draw sidearm

    only real on foot da dao techniques are mountain crush egg and iron broom. everything else flower
    I think he's saying that you can't effectively wield it without using the whole body acting in unison - coordination, rotation, etc. similar to the 25lb kwan dao I am using - you need to use the whole body to effectively use it.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    I think he's saying that you can't effectively wield it without using the whole body acting in unison - coordination, rotation, etc. similar to the 25lb kwan dao I am using - you need to use the whole body to effectively use it.
    25 lb da dao is not training weight it is combat weight. you use momentum of horse to mow down enemies. its couched like a lance there is no coordination rotation. dismounted you only have one strike then you drop it pull sidearm.

    spinning around, twirling it around, parrying blocking, footwork, is all flower. raise it to the sky, chop straight down into the ground, pull sidearm. this is called mountain crush egg.
    Last edited by bawang; 09-23-2016 at 09:32 PM.

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  13. #13
    25lb is twice the weight of the heaviest zweihänder. From horse back even a normal 5lb sword gets devastating power because the horse's momentum is behind it.

  14. #14
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    This one. 3.5 pounds.

    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 250
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    Use more body weight instead of arm power to cut. Or else it will be too slow, sword will pull you off balance, and you get stabbed by 4 guys when you try to recover.

  15. #15
    Yes, it's a combat weight weapon, it's not wushu steel. I won't be using it from horseback, but if I can use it with ease as I would wushu steel, my back, triceps, core, legs and shoulders should benefit
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

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