Jiao Men Tan Tui

[mickey]

Greetings,

The link is to a 10 Road Tan Tui set that is nearly identical to the one shown in the book "Jiao Men Tan Tui", that was reprinted in the 1980's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9tlWETSps0


mickey

[SPJ]

There should be 12 roads.

Long fist people would know more. Where is John Wang?

[mickey]

Greetings SPJ,

Even the book showed only 10 sections. Quite a few of the Islamic styles have that number of roads. I have not seen them all. Here is the book I am referencing:

http://sempaijuku.blogspot.com/2011/...u-zhi-qin.html

The book on scribd:

https://www.scribd.com/document/1052...huo-Wu-Zhiqing


mickey

[Xian]

I actually have to admit, that I like the Jungwoo Version more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2da_YijN9U

Best,
Xian

[mickey]

Where is John Wang?

Well,

Given the treatment he got around here, I understand his absence. Still, I hope he is doing alright.

mickey

[Jimbo]

When I was training northern Mantis in Taiwan, I also learned a Shi Lu Tan Tui (10 roads). There is another Tan Tui lineage that is 12 roads, but I never saw that in person. But I stopped doing the Tan Tui set over 20 years ago.

The "Tan" character in the 10 roads Tan Tui I learned translated to "springing" leg. I believe in the 12 roads Tan Tui, the character "Tan" is the same as the surname Tan.

[bawang]

tan tui means snap kick because every road has a snap kick. the modern forms are distorted but original concept was combat oriented and simple. example of similar concept is taizu longfist 24 road jab

purpose of tan tui was to apply kick to long fist system but as bonus it preserved vital basic combat theories of long fist systems

[YouKnowWho]

There should be 12 roads.

Long fist people would know more. Where is John Wang?

Well,

Given the treatment he got around here, I understand his absence. Still, I hope he is doing alright.

mickey

I'm still here. Thanks for remembering me.

The Centural Kou Shu Kwoon taught 10 roads. The Jingwoo system taught 12 roads. The Liuhe system taught 16 roads.

[wolfen]

Greetings,

The link is to a 10 Road Tan Tui set that is nearly identical to the one shown in the book "Jiao Men Tan Tui", that was reprinted in the 1980's.
mickey

The video is from a Guo Shu She branch at an Engineering School in Taibei, it might be old.
國術社 GuoShushe ie in the the Wu Tang Org in Taiwan.

台北工專國術社陳順興學長示範十路彈腿 習自范之孝老師 (Chen Shuxing, a teacher of Taipei National Engineering Society)

Adam Hsu Article (Wu Tang)

Summary of Sifu Han Ching-Tan's Martial Art: Part 3
Basic Bare-Hand Styles
By Adam Hsu

(Translated by Joan-Huey Dow)


When Sifu Han started teaching wushu in Taiwan, he followed the traditional sequence of bare-hand styles, short and long weapons and then other weapons. All categories included two-person training. Chin Na and Shuai Jiao training were given to students who had learned the basics and built a good wushu foundation.

Sifu Han’s wushu was based primarily on Jiao Men Chang Quan (Islamic Style Long Fist) and Mei Hua Chang Quan (Mei Flower Long Fist). He compiled ten forms of training materials for bare-hand styles that included some other styles’ materials as well as these two Long Fist styles. Each form had its own unique character but the levels of these forms are quite different. For weapons, he set the sequential order for students to follow.


....


Jiao Men Chang Chuan

It was believed that Tan Tui (springing leg) originated from the Islamic Style Chang Quan in Lingching of Shandong province and became popular there. Tan Tui, the Lingching lioncat (the flat faced and long haired Persian cat) and tofu-on-the-wood (tofu served on a piece of wood to eat) were considered as the three treasures of Linching. It was originally taught under the name of Tan Tui. Later on, it was adopted by other wushu families, such as “Cha Quan,” “Er Lian,” “Liu He,” and “Shanxi Xing Yi.” Some wushu families took the structure of Tan Tui and developed their own training materials, such as “Seven-Star Praying Mantis” and “Tongbei."

Tan Tui originally had ten lines. The form could be taught one line per month and completed within one year, excluding two months for the busy harvest time and holidays in the farming community. Afterward, it was expanded to twelve lines to fill up all twelve months of the year. Some people even expanded the form beyond twelve lines. There were fourteen- or sixteen-line Tan Tui although they were less popular.

The techniques of Chinese martial arts are well blended into everyday life. The advantage is that people can adapt to them naturally. But there's also the problem that there is no distinct starting point. The major issues are: there is no clear method for beginners to follow and the advancing levels are too ambiguous to define.

For the same form, a beginner and a master with decades of practice could show the same movements, but the quality of their moves and postures would be totally different. It all depends on each person’s efforts in practice and depth of their understanding. Some students want to progress quickly but lack patience and diligence. Some teachers want to see quick results through improper teaching methods. These lead to a weak foundation and so prevent further advancement. It is sad to say that no wushu techniques could be passed on successfully this way and the effort will be all in vain.

Tan Tui training can build you a solid wushu foundation. Tan Tui for the northern style martial arts is like grammar for a foreign language and so learning Tan Tui is like learning wushu grammar. After completing Tan Tui (in approximately one year), it will be easier for you to learn other bare-hand styles and weapons as well.

Sifu Han’s “Ten-Line Tan Tui” was possibly from the Cha Quan Family. He told us that he learned it by peeking through the door of Tan’s family in Henan province and secretly recording it. However, there was no proof for this story. Another story was that Tan Tui was created by a monk in Long-Tan temple in Shandong province and so it was named as Tan Tui. If Sifu Han really learned Tan Tui from master Zhang Bing-Chang, he could claim it and the story of learning it by peeking though the door would not exist. While he was learning Jiao Men Chang Quan, he already had a very good wushu foundation. Therefore he might have learned Tan Tui at a fast pace without getting the details. He did ask Mr.Chang Bern-Yuan, who taught Cha Quan in the Central Martial Arts Academy, about some Tan Tui movements.

In Tan Tui, there is a brief pause at the end of each line. The closing posture also serves as the starting posture for the next line. In addition, there are overall starting and closing postures as well. These postures are similar to those in Pao Quan and Cha Quan as they all originate from the same wushu family.

Jiao Men (Islamic) Tan Tui Spring Leg - TC 236
by Wu Zhi Qing
$12.95 Traditional Chinese Characters, softbound;
141 Pages. Old photographs, softbound, 2013

It is generally accepted that the Tan Tui of the Muslim people is the original. And, to put more of an edge on it, the say goes "Hui hui Tan Tui" which means the Hui (Muslim) Tan Tui is the (Hui) best .This book shows classic photos (probably the first ever taken of this version of the form) of the Ten Road Tan Tui taken probably in the 1930's.

Master Wu Zhiqing (吳志青), who was a master of Chaquan, Duandaquan (短打拳) and Shi Lu Tan Tui (十路潭腿)

Chinese Title "教 門 彈腿 圖 說", Published in 1922.
Were you able to download the book from Scribd for free?

Kung Fu: Tantui, the Essence of Northern Shaolin

Tantui’s primary set is composed of eight, ten, or twelve sequences, depending on one’s lineage. Traditionally, the exponent moves along a straight line to one side, practicing movements of one sequence before turning around and returning to their original position until all sequences are completed. These sequences are often called the “roads” of Tantui, and each has a characteristic kicking technique and strategy. Many practitioners will say they practice “Eight Road Tantui,” “Ten Road Tantui,” or “Twelve Road Tantui,” depending on how many sequences are in their set. Shaolin Wahnam practiced a “Twelve Road” set,
...
Ten roads tan tui by Han Ching-Tan 十路潭腿-韓慶堂



Grandmaster Han Ching-Tan demonstrating his “Ten Road Tantui.” Note the solidity of his stances and agility of his kicks. His agility and flexibility are a very different thing than the lady in the first clip. While the lady in the first clip has excellent flexibility for flexibility’s sake, Grandmaster Han Ching-Tan has more “functional” agility, I might say. He does not exhibit the same extreme flexibility shown by the lady, but his movements from stance to stance are flowing and solid, and his form shows that his vitals are well-covered by his stance

Ted Mancuso on Tan Tui

Spring Training

I first met the Tan Tui around 1968. In that prehistoric period we were still calling our style “Chinese” Kenpo. Tan Tui was one of the last requirements for black belt. It did seem odd to me, even as a teenager, that this authentic but basic Kung Fu form was also one of the most advanced in the Kenpo curriculum.
....
One pretty much universally agree on aspect of Tan Tui is that it is merciless. In that sense it is a perfect "teacher's form". Among its origin stories is the one that goes it was invented by a Mr. Tan whose family name was altered by some illiterate Sifu into another writing of Tan. True or not, few people get through the training without cursing Tan’s name at least once. The moves are a cruel combination of precise and unnatural. This is nothing new to Kung Fu in general but, when you are struggling through a foundational form like this, you don’t know that. You just think it’s torturous. And rigid. And awkward. And it is. But when you reach the first level, not of grace but of a glimpse of possible competence, a halting continuity; you feel like you’ve done something.

Tan Tui is a master form. That doesn’t mean you will necessarily do it for the rest of your life. But it does mean that you could. And in the world of martial values that’s pretty much as gold as it gets.

A Look at Tan Tui: What You Need to Know

A long and detailed article from Matthew Lee | 09/25/2015

Ten Roads Tan Tui

Perhaps the most original style of Tan Tui as we know it today. As the name suggests, this style of Tan Tui consists of ten “roads” of Taolu. Styles of Ten Roads Tan Tui include the practice of Tan Tui in Chaquan, Tan Tui from the Nanjing Central Guoshu Institute (南京中央国术馆；Nánjīngzhōngyāngguóshùguǎn), and Ma Style Tongbei (马氏通备； Mǎshìtōngbèi, not to be confused with the traditional Wushu style 通背拳； tōngbèiquán, literally “through-the-back” fist) Tan Tui.

[YouKnowWho]

台北工專國術社陳順興學長示範十路彈腿 習自范之孝老師 (Chen Shuxing, a teacher of Taipei National Engineering Society)

That was where I had spent my 2nd 3 years long fist training after my 1st 3 years 建国 Jianguo high school long fist training. A year later, my high school stopped teaching Tan Tui because the drop out rate was too high.

Old saying said, "If you train Tan Tui 20 times daily, the cold and heat will never bother you for the rest of your life". In my experience, that statement is true.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Nice to have you back YouKnowWho.

wolfen,

I have the green covered reprint that came out during the 1980's.

It was very kind of you to draw that info together: a real reflection of my internet journey with this style.

mickey

[SPJ]

Great posts from every one.

When I was a young boy, I learned both the Kuo Shu 10 roads and Jin Wu ? 12 roads.

Some very good postures, basic hand moves and kicks.

There is a kick in every step. Grinding steps or nian bu are most difficult.

I was asked to stand in postures especially standing on one leg.

Not fun. But you get used to it.

Most northern styles incorporated tan tui as part of basic drills.

At one time, I kicked my shoe off into the pond in Taipei City New Park. Everyone laughed, I sort of embarrassed.

[SPJ]

There are actually many throws.

As YKW would point them out.

[Jimbo]

At one time, I kicked my shoe off into the pond in Taipei City New Park. Everyone laughed, I sort of embarrassed.

Was that the pond next to the pagoda? Some of my training took place in Taipei New Park as well. I believe the name of the park has long been changed since then.

[mickey]

There are actually many throws.

Greetings,

This is very true. When I first saw the techniques of Shuai Chiao done in line fashion, I saw Tan Tui. For the vast majority, Tan Tui remains a basic set when it really offers so much material to develop with. The roads of Tan Tui are the beautiful thorns to the rose of the Long Fist styles. Even the late Cai Longyun referred to it as an advanced set. So, that is something to really think about. Specialists in this style are incredibly few and are so way out in the fringes it is exclusively a solitary practice and study for them; a seriously hermit like commitment to the style.

mickey