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Thread: Traditional Wushu vs Cinematic Wushu

  1. #31

    Hess fight

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64d_1...594&comments=1

    I think Hicks trained Hess like 1-3 months for this fight. Meaning he had never learned anything prior. He also quit smoking like a month before the bout.

    Lew Hicks was a Navy Seal that learned SCARS from Peterson who learned San Soo from Bill Hulsey who learned it from Jimmy H. Woo and Frank Woolsey.

    If anyone wants to see the SAFTA tape Hicks made send me a pm. I have it.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    I believe Jon Hess was the first UFC guy to openly eye gouge. There was no rules against it. He was boo'd hard. He was trained by Lew Hicks and more or less that was San Soo . The guy looked horrible.
    they actually used it in the same month. Hess was fined for the gouge. it was "legal" as I stated. you were fined for doing it.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    they actually used it in the same month. Hess was fined for the gouge. it was "legal" as I stated. you were fined for doing it.
    Ah.... that's right you got fined for it, that was it. I don't recall the other fighter or fight but LOL same month.

    I just wiki Hess and they are saying he was a BB in San Soo the time of this fight and he took the test with Hicks ? I recall them saying way back when he was a student of Hicks and only trained a month or 3 . But looks like he was more or less highly skilled in San Soo. So this is what beautiful San Soo looks like when it is for real !

    Just like lovely Kenpo when done for real is just hammer, hammer, hammer upswing, upswing, upswing. Rinse and repeat.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 11-02-2016 at 09:57 AM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Ah.... that's right you got fined for it, that was it. I don't recall the other fighter or fight but LOL same month.
    gordeau was a kyokushin and savatte guy. he made a decent name for himself from fighting. he was only 2-2 in mma, but he actually competed in k-1, too.. I think he trains some k-1 guys now.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    gordeau was a kyokushin and savatte guy. he made a decent name for himself from fighting. he was only 2-2 in mma, but he actually competed in k-1, too.. I think he trains some k-1 guys now.

    He was who I most wanted to see fight. Savate. I was still heavily into TKD at the time. Kicking.

    When you wrote savate I recalled who Gordeau was. I did not know he took someones eyes. He was serious as a heart attack as were all those early guys.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 11-02-2016 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #36
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    Here is an example of cinematic MA, with KF movie actor Chan Wai-Man. Admittedly, his MA background was probably more karate and boxing/kickboxing than KF, and also had triad involvement, but he is still a great example:



    *Continued next post...

  7. #37
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    ...Continued from previous post...

    And here is an example of Chan Wai-Man in real professional kickboxing matches in 1982 (note: the title put on the video is misleading). Chan is the one who fights in the long pants (white pants in the first fight, black in the second):



    He obviously knew the difference between cinematic fighting and real fighting. Aside from maybe these two kickboxing matches in his 30s, he likely had many street fights in his past as well.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-02-2016 at 12:57 PM.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    I'm with bawang on that one. if you look at the guys training at the muay thai gym I attend and compare them with those where I train kung fu, the difference is obvious. That's not to say there is no masculinity in kung fu, but sport fighting tends to draw it more, at least in my experience. If that was the experience of most, you would think kung fu would be as popular as MMA. As I've said before, if fighting was seen more - san da, shuai chiao, etc. then more masculinity would be attracted to it. Guys who want to fight are instantly turned away because they are under the impression that it's all forms, smoke and flowery techniques - things that attract the "nerd" group.
    What I was getting at is you attract that type by doing just forms, theory, chi stuff...you attract the other type by training the fighting and conditioning. It's not that kung fu attracts "nerds", they are drawn by a certain facet, alpha males are drawn to another. It has nothing to do with it being kung fu, or Chinese, it's what aspect of TCMA you are focusing on.

    There are lot of different things you can train that fall under the TCMA banner and it's doubtful you can train them all to mastery, even proficiency, so the gong fu you focus on dictates what you will achieve through it and the type of people you will draw to yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  9. #39

    Chan Wai Man...

    Greetings,

    Chan Wai did have a traditional CMA background. He trained in a style that is not to well known here in the US. The style is called Tan(Tam?) Gar, a southern style, and is famous for it's Chow family Ba Gua pole and a form known as Sam Chien. I do not know if the form is ancestral or related to the Sanchin form of Okinawa. The style also has five animals. That is much as I remember about that style. Chan Wai Man also studied Western boxing. He may have studied other things as well. He was able to bring that real fight intensity into his movie roles.

    mickey

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    Chan Wai did have a traditional CMA background. He trained in a style that is not to well known here in the US. The style is called Tan(Tam?) Gar, a southern style, and is famous for it's Chow family Ba Gua pole and a form known as Sam Chien. I do not know if the form is ancestral or related to the Sanchin form of Okinawa. The style also has five animals. That is much as I remember about that style. Chan Wai Man also studied Western boxing. He may have studied other things as well. He was able to bring that real fight intensity into his movie roles.

    mickey
    Thanks for the info. I had concluded that CWM had trained karate because in an old HK magazine from the '70s (possibly New Martial Hero), there was an article about him that mentioned him practicing San Zhan (Japanese: Sanchin, 'three battles'; I studied Mandarin, not Cantonese). The magazine was all in Chinese. Since Goju-ryu karate is very popular in HK, I assumed he had studied that. I had forgotten that some southern CMA styles (Fukien/Fujian styles?) also have 'three battles' sets.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-02-2016 at 06:08 PM.

  11. #41

    Jimmy Wing Woo



    And one of my favorite films.

  12. #42

  13. #43

    acadamy of karate kung fu LOL



    Whats kung fu ? Like Karate. Is that Judo ? Before my time but I guess that's what it was like.

  14. #44
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    My CLF sifu had a school years before the TV show Kung Fu and the Bruce Lee/kung fu craze of the early '70s, and I remember him saying once that he had to include the word 'karate' on his sign, because hardly anybody had heard of kung fu at the time. It was the exact opposite of what would happen after the craze hit, in which many karate schools falsely advertised as teaching kung fu.

    My Kenpo teacher, who was my first teacher in striking arts, had 'Chinese karate' on his window for years. To his credit, he never advertised his Kenpo as kung fu, though he did have some background in CMA (Taiji, Xingyi, etc.). And there were some Chinese influences in the way he taught sparring that were quite effective.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    What I was getting at is you attract that type by doing just forms, theory, chi stuff...you attract the other type by training the fighting and conditioning. It's not that kung fu attracts "nerds", they are drawn by a certain facet, alpha males are drawn to another. It has nothing to do with it being kung fu, or Chinese, it's what aspect of TCMA you are focusing on.

    There are lot of different things you can train that fall under the TCMA banner and it's doubtful you can train them all to mastery, even proficiency, so the gong fu you focus on dictates what you will achieve through it and the type of people you will draw to yourself.
    it makes sense, but isn't always the case - exceptions to every rule, I suppose. I live in an mma town. there is good some good kung fu here and a good kyokushin guy. all their schools will ever see, however are nerds, families and kids. Alpha types here go for bjj and muay thai. The people who are teaching good kung fu have extremely small classes - the nerd types who try it usually leave. those who stay comprise the small class. The muay thai and bjj classes, however are huge. nerd types usually don't last there. but everyone who even thinks they want to fight or may one day be involved in an altercation trains at these schools.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

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