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Thread: Traditional Wushu vs Cinematic Wushu

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    To regret the present and remember a past golden age is to step on the path to extinction. True manhood, true manliness is to survive and thrive in any environment.
    This is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    Ultimately all modern kungfu is about recovering lost or deferred masculinity.
    This is a skewed perspective you arrived at because that quality was lacking in your upbringing.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    This is true.



    This is a skewed perspective you arrived at because that quality was lacking in your upbringing.
    just look at the huge number of nerds and generally effete men getting into kung fu over the decades and the general theme of traditional folk stories

    this is art of violence, it is inherently manly
    Last edited by bawang; 10-31-2016 at 08:20 PM.

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  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    this is art of violence, it is inherently manly
    Absolutely. It is inherent to real training.

    Modern Kung Fu isn't about reclaiming that, though. There are largely two factions in the modern world, those trying to figure out what their place is and how to market kung fu; and those interested in fighting who are concerned with applying kung fu.

    In spite of certain political factions, masculinity has always been prized in the west. Nobody is worried about reclaiming masculinity because we never suffered from a stigma of being effeminate. If you train like a warrior you will attract warrior archetype. If you train like a man, like minded brotherhood will follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    In spite of certain political factions, masculinity has always been prized in the west. Nobody is worried about reclaiming masculinity because we never suffered from a stigma of being effeminate. If you train like a warrior you will attract warrior archetype. If you train like a man, like minded brotherhood will follow.
    I'm with bawang on that one. if you look at the guys training at the muay thai gym I attend and compare them with those where I train kung fu, the difference is obvious. That's not to say there is no masculinity in kung fu, but sport fighting tends to draw it more, at least in my experience. If that was the experience of most, you would think kung fu would be as popular as MMA. As I've said before, if fighting was seen more - san da, shuai chiao, etc. then more masculinity would be attracted to it. Guys who want to fight are instantly turned away because they are under the impression that it's all forms, smoke and flowery techniques - things that attract the "nerd" group.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    I'm with bawang on that one. if you look at the guys training at the muay thai gym I attend and compare them with those where I train kung fu, the difference is obvious. That's not to say there is no masculinity in kung fu, but sport fighting tends to draw it more, at least in my experience. If that was the experience of most, you would think kung fu would be as popular as MMA. As I've said before, if fighting was seen more - san da, shuai chiao, etc. then more masculinity would be attracted to it. Guys who want to fight are instantly turned away because they are under the impression that it's all forms, smoke and flowery techniques - things that attract the "nerd" group.
    I agree with this. Of course, a competitive fighting environment attracts more testosterone-fueled types, usually a younger crowd. It is something that a lot of people (males especially) need to experience and get out of their systems while still young. It is a natural stage of life for (many/most) males. If it's suppressed, it can come out in unproductive ways.

    Even if KF were taught in an MMA-style environment, I still believe that MMA as it's seen today would still outstrip KF in popularity because it's streamlined and the standard methods (MT, BJJ, boxing and wrestling) are already in place, for obvious reasons. Even when somebody comes in, fights differently and is successful, that "new" art is never sought out for standard MMA. Even if a KF guy went in and won using obvious KF techniques, he would be seen as an aberration at best. He is usually also viewed as "just lucky" or boring, especially if he doesn't stand and trade like rock 'em sock 'em robots. Audiences generally don't tend to like or accept unconventional things, even if they work well enough. And the KF crowd would probably be criticizing that he really wasn't using KF or was doing it all wrong. That type of unproductive, passive-aggressive backstabbing among CMAists is another common issue that holds KF/CMA back.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-02-2016 at 07:35 AM.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I agree with this. Of course, a competitive fighting environment attracts more testosterone-fueled types, usually a younger crowd. It is something that a lot of people (males especially) need to experience and get out of their systems while still young. It is a natural stage of life for (many/most) males. If it's suppressed, it can come out in unproductive ways.

    Even if KF were taught in an MMA-style environment, I still believe that MMA as it's seen today would still outstrip KF in popularity because it's streamlined and the standard methods (MT, BJJ, boxing and wrestling) are already in place, for obvious reasons. Even when somebody comes in, fights differently and is successful, that "new" art is never sought out for standard MMA. Even if a KF guy went in and won using obvious KF techniques, he would be seen as an aberration at best. He is usually also viewed as "just lucky" or boring, especially if he doesn't stand and trade like rock 'em sock 'em robots. Audiences generally don't tend to like or accept unconventional things, even if they work well enough. And the KF crowd would probably be criticizing that he really wasn't using KF or was doing it all wrong. That type of passive-aggressive backstabbing is anther issue in KF/CMA.
    At best they would steal his winning technique but how many took Hackneys tiger claw , leopards palm depending on source ? I off hand cant think of any. But they all use his upswing when someone is down. Why not the overhand ? Too easy to defend against now, they'll just rush in and bring you down. But the upswing gets decent power and it digs real well for being what many would consider an arm punch. For those that use a name I am unfamiliar with, that's the blow Hackney busted his hand on slamming it into that basketball sized head of Yarborough .

    I always wondered where BJJ would be if Royce drew Yarborough . There are those that say the draws were fixed. Anyway, Kenpo went into the early days of UFC and did well.

  7. #22


    Looks like he hammer fisted a lot too...... Now I bet no one gives Keith credit because its in every art but he was in the first. That long arm swing is the upswing. I prefer to use it with a bend in the arm and I spread the impact out Keith used just the middle knuckle as instructed. Bad move. Probably great to the body with one knuckle.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    I always wondered where BJJ would be if Royce drew Yarborough . There are those that say the draws were fixed. Anyway, Kenpo went into the early days of UFC and did well.
    he was 2 - 2. But he was there. I liked hackney.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  9. #24
    Like I said he did okay. Wonder how others would have done out the gate against that big boy ? This was all so freaking new and exciting. All these different styles literally beating the crap out of one another. We all stood in shock and awe. No one would have predicted Royce. We knew nothing about it.
    No one believe they could take that mountain of a man. Everyones idea was kick his legs. His legs are like oak trees and can you imagine trying to chock him out ? I wonder if you run out of air first if he rolls onto you ? Just a guy that f---cks up all ideas but Keith just cracked him in the head just like McSweeney taught. McSweeney always said, anyone 180 up can knock out anyone regardless the size with these blows. Looks like McSweeney sort of knew what he was talking about.

    Anyway, the upswing and leopards paw likely were learned by Jimmy Wing Woo. Keith is off John McSweeneys line. Johns Kenpo for fighting is different than the Kenpo Parker taught. John learned directly from Woo too. But he taught parkers Kenpo as he learned it.

    Okay technically he did not ko him as an astute observer may notice but I think he got a split second ko on the first strike but Yarborough revovered. And look at the guy just take those hammers to the back of the neck. I suggest people run from anyone that size. Up top you though if you need to feel like your living up to your standards of manhood depending on what country you hail from. Me, Im F---king running !

    The first strike is not in that clip.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 11-02-2016 at 08:12 AM.

  10. #25
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    Sorry if this takes the thread way OT, but...



    The announcer refers to Yarborough as a "behammoth".

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    At best they would steal his winning technique but how many took Hackneys tiger claw , leopards palm depending on source ? I off hand cant think of any. But they all use his upswing when someone is down. Why not the overhand ? Too easy to defend against now, they'll just rush in and bring you down. But the upswing gets decent power and it digs real well for being what many would consider an arm punch. For those that use a name I am unfamiliar with, that's the blow Hackney busted his hand on slamming it into that basketball sized head of Yarborough .
    in terms of the claw itself, it's illegal. you can palm strike, which bas rutten made popular before hackney, but the clawing is illegal. There is a member of this forum who fought in the UFC back then. he had two matches, won one, lost the other, but in the one he won, he used a tiger claw also. there are things illegal now that were "legal" then. I put that in quotes because there were things which you could get away with, but would get you a fine, for example, the eye gouge. Yuki nakai is blind in one eye because Gerard gordeau gouged him. gordeau still lost the fight, but nakai permanently lost his eye.

    the overhand was made popular by chuck lidell. that was his KO punch.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Sorry if this takes the thread way OT, but...



    The announcer refers to Yarborough as a "behammoth".
    Hackney was 15 lbs heavier than the MMA guy .

    But it does seem once Yarborough is down you can do what you like because eit seems it takes 600lbs of man a LONG time to get back up. LOL. Still, Im running.

    Okay back to movie kung fu vs the real deal.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Sorry if this takes the thread way OT, but...



    The announcer refers to Yarborough as a "behammoth".

    yeah, he was a big boy. he passed away a year or so ago from a heart attack.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar View Post
    in terms of the claw itself, it's illegal. you can palm strike, which bas rutten made popular before hackney, but the clawing is illegal. There is a member of this forum who fought in the UFC back then. he had two matches, won one, lost the other, but in the one he won, he used a tiger claw also. there are things illegal now that were "legal" then. I put that in quotes because there were things which you could get away with, but would get you a fine, for example, the eye gouge. Yuki nakai is blind in one eye because Gerard gordeau gouged him. gordeau still lost the fight, but nakai permanently lost his eye.

    the overhand was made popular by chuck lidell. that was his KO punch.
    It actually is called a leopards palm strike in McSweeney Kenpo. It is not a claw at all. Heel of hand strike. But ive seen Hackneys strike called a TS over the years more than not .

    I believe Jon Hess was the first UFC guy to openly eye gouge. There was no rules against it. He was boo'd hard. He was trained by Lew Hicks and more or less that was San Soo . The guy looked horrible.

    Hackney pounded Joe Son's nuts which was legal at that time. He also chocked him out with a McSweeney move . I forget the name. Basically the thumb and index and middle fingers grabbing the adams apple and squeeze. Keith brought all those kung fu goodies into the care.

  15. #30
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    I wish Hackney had punched Joe Son's nuts even harder. Son was a rapist scumbag.

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