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Thread: Traditional Wushu vs Cinematic Wushu

  1. #1

    Traditional Wushu vs Cinematic Wushu



    Interview with He Jing Han (Ba Gua Quan)

    Traditional Wushu is about passing from one generation to the next.

    Movie is about display or show.

    Traditional training is about basic practice and boring. They may not be good to see or show.

    etc.


  2. #2

    Socialism versus Art

    Something on the same subject in English from Adam Hsu

    Eight video Playlist 1 hr 26 min total
    Sword Polisher's Interview: Adam Hsu on the True Art of Kung Fu
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...-e-KvXhPyCHItP

    Sword Polisher's Interview: Adam Hsu on the True Art of Kung Fu (1/8)


    Chinese family traditions are different from Western Family traditions.
    Socialist and Leftist governments often wage war on the family and family structures and family businesses. this is particularity true in North America today.
    They also wage war on the individual's natural mind in pubic education and the workplace.
    This affects what kind of raw material /recruits are available to the marital arts, what interest there is in the martial arts and what kind of martial arts are actually practiced.
    "顺其自然"

  3. #3
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    SPJ:

    Of course, cinematic CMA/wushu is for entertainment, not for educational purposes. The same as action movies with lots of gunfights; they are to entertain audiences and are not tutorials on real-life shooting scenarios. The same with cinematic representations of car chases, paranormal experiences, romances, etc., etc. Even movies that appear more realistic than others are still 'fake'. If they were presented in movies as they happen in real life, they would be boring, too.

    wolfen:

    As far as some cultures' people being more compatible for CMA training: In Taiwan, the most popular and widely-practiced MA was TKD, especially among kids. Far more popular than CMA. Part of the reason is that CMA have a poor reputation among many people there as being less organized and being associated with gangsters. In some instances those stereotypes were true. The nice white uniforms, belt grading systems, board breaking, easy-to-understand applications, spectacular kicks, connections to a recognized world-wide association (and now the Olympics), and more frequent tournaments, lack of 'secrecy' and generally nicer facilities in TKD schools, make TKD more desirable to a high number of people in Taiwan. I also remember hearing back in the 1970s that TKD was the most popular MA in Hong Kong as well.

    I'm not saying that TKD is better than CMA. If I believed that, I would have chosen that over CMA. My point is that even many people who grow up and live in the Chinese culture apparently do not prefer CMA, whether or not we may consider that justified or not.

    There are individuals born in the West who can love CMA and gain as deep an understanding as any high-level practitioner from China, Taiwan or anywhere else. It's the individual, and their inherent dedication to and innate compatibility and intelligence regarding whichever CMA they train that really matters.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-18-2016 at 08:03 AM.

  4. #4


    Discussion of all aspects of Wushu in modern media rich society.

    Traditional Wushu requires us for long term practice to appreciate the nuclei of values, thoughts, etc.


  5. #5
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    Baguaquan, not Baguazhang

    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post

    Interview with He Jing Han (Ba Gua Quan)
    He Jing-Han was our NOV+DEC 2004 cover master.

    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  6. #6

    Trends

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    SPJ:

    wolfen:

    As far as some cultures' people being more compatible for CMA training: In Taiwan, the most popular and widely-practiced MA was TKD, especially among kids. Far more popular than CMA. Part of the reason is that CMA have a poor reputation among many people there as being less organized and being associated with gangsters. In some instances those stereotypes were true. The nice white uniforms, belt grading systems, board breaking, easy-to-understand applications, spectacular kicks, connections to a recognized world-wide association (and now the Olympics), and more frequent tournaments, lack of 'secrecy' and generally nicer facilities in TKD schools, make TKD more desirable to a high number of people in Taiwan. I also remember hearing back in the 1970s that TKD was the most popular MA in Hong Kong as well.

    I'm not saying that TKD is better than CMA. If I believed that, I would have chosen that over CMA. My point is that even many people who grow up and live in the Chinese culture apparently do not prefer CMA, whether or not we may consider that justified or not.

    There are individuals born in the West who can love CMA and gain as deep an understanding as any high-level practitioner from China, Taiwan or anywhere else. It's the individual, and their inherent dedication to and innate compatibility and intelligence regarding whichever CMA they train that really matters.
    I am familiar with all that, I lived in Taiwan for a number of years. I didn't compare Taiwan to America, or TKD to CMA I contrasted Socialism to Art. I am accounting for the trends both East and West.. Though the title is not comprehensive enough, it should be something like Government versus Art, though socialism the most annoying dog here. That dog has brought a cloud of cultural Marxism that has descended on the West with it 's corresponding behaviour control methods.

    And what makes an individual an "individual"? Qualities such as creativity, resilience, questioning, challenging, self-actualization self-reliance, self-development, spiritual questing etc are Anti-State
    To be individual is to somehow have escaped state indoctrination in public education. For an example of the depth of this look at the State sponsored Pharma Industry and the damage that has done to the population. So I was talking about the destructiveness governments have on families, family values and the individual and how the affects the practice of kungfu.
    Last edited by wolfen; 10-18-2016 at 09:34 PM.
    "顺其自然"

  7. #7

    Destruction of the Family

    And you thought I was exaggerating....No more mothers and fathers

    Saying 'Shifu' is illegal and PC incorrect.
    .. no family values , no family kung fu.

    News stories from two provinces in Canada

    Wynne Liberals move to erase words "mother" and "father" from Ontario laws





    Ontario MPPs approve motion to remove words mother, father from government forms
    Forms should 'reflect diverse nature' of families, MPP Glenn Thibeault says
    Ontario lawmakers have approved a motion to remove the words 'mother' and 'father' from all government forms to "reflect the diverse nature" of families in the province.


    Glenn Thibeault


    ... It's official: My motion has passed unanimously in the House - no opposition from any member of legislature!

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    Alberta, Canada's Progressive New Government Bans the Words "Mother" and "Father" in Schools


    It used to be: "Heather has two mommies."

    Now, it's: "Heather has two non-gendered and inclusive caregivers."

    That's the language the New Democratic Party government in Alberta, Canada, is telling teachers and school administrators to use when adressing the adults with whom students are living. Out: "mother" and "father." In: "parent," "caregiver," "partner," whatever.

    And God help you if refer to one of the little rascals as "him" or "her."

    Here's the pertinent language from the rainbow-adorned "Guidelines for Best Practices" that the highminded-progressive NDP government issued last week:

    School forms, websites, letters, and other communications use non-gendered and inclusive language (e.g., parents/guardians, caregivers, families, partners, “student” or “their” instead of Mr., Ms., Mrs., mother, father, him, her, etc.)."

    The purpose of the guidelines, according to the text, is to create "learning communities" that "respect diverse sexual orientations, gender identies, and gender expressions."
    This is cultural Marxism, the destruction of the family and individuality by the State.
    Last edited by wolfen; 10-18-2016 at 09:29 PM.
    "顺其自然"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    And you thought I was exaggerating....No more mothers and fathers

    Saying 'Shifu' is illegal and PC incorrect.
    .. no family values , no family kung fu.

    News stories from two provinces in Canada

    Wynne Liberals move to erase words "mother" and "father" from Ontario laws








    Name:  Teacher Banned.jpg
Views: 392
Size:  18.6 KB

    Alberta, Canada's Progressive New Government Bans the Words "Mother" and "Father" in Schools



    This is cultural Marxism, the destruction of the family and individuality by the State.
    Lol, ^ This is simplistic alarmist propaganda. Also, it was a motion towards inclusiveness and recognition of the change in family structure that is more apparent every day.

    The so called nuclear family isn't really the only thing there is anymore. There's lots of variation on what constitutes families now and the motion towards inclusive language cuts off at the pass any attempts to demoralize or oppress those who do not fit into a rigid framework that is only subscribed to by an ever smaller portion of the population.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #9
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    CMA has had a LONG history of practice and development under repressive rule, yet a high number of traditional CMA are still here today. The repressive regimes failed to exterminate it. And I've never heard of an instance where a CMA teacher couldn't be referred to as Shifu or Sifu, unless that teacher preferred the title 'Laoshi', and only allowed inner-door disciples to call him Shifu/Sifu.

    Back to SPJ's original question, much (most) of the practices common to traditional CMA would not be entertaining to watch in a movie. Because it is simple repetition and refinement. The benefits accrue over time, but are nothing much to watch. Maybe that's one of the "secrets" of kung fu, which is really no secret at all.

  10. #10
    Greetings,

    I always found enjoyment when seeing training sequences in the movies. I think it had to do with the emphasis on the basics at the first kung fu school I went to. It was pretty much understood that one's basics had to be solid. The school wasn't perfect but, it made it's point.

    There is also the coefficient of time. How much of that kind of training do you put into 95 minutes? The Chinese TV series are more appropriate for that kind of display.

    mickey

  11. #11
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    From the cinematic side...

    IMO, the character Chi Kuan-Chun portrayed in the 1974 movie Shaolin Martial Arts is one of the better examples of the sheer drudgery and repetition that is characteristic in developing many kung/gong. In the movie, he travels to a teacher to learn just one skill: a one-inch fingertip thrust. Yes, it is fanciful and fictitious, but few cinematic portrayals of KF training show such single-minded concentration on one single, simple movement. Which is why Fu Sheng's scenes of practicing the Fu Hok Seung Ying form (also done in a cinematic fashion, or course) interspersed with Chi Kuan-Chun's scenes contrast effectively to break up the monotony. This clip shows a portion of their training sequences.

    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-19-2016 at 08:50 AM.

  12. #12

    Big Trouble at Dragon Carp Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    CMA has had a LONG history of practice and development under repressive rule, yet a high number of traditional CMA are still here today. The repressive regimes failed to exterminate it.
    ...
    And I've never heard of an instance where a CMA teacher couldn't be referred to as Shifu or Sifu, unless that teacher preferred the title 'Laoshi', and only allowed inner-door disciples to call him Shifu/Sifu.
    .
    I have drawn neither of these conclusions that you are arguing against. I don't know where you got them from or why you make these conclusions and then argue against them'
    ...
    The title of my previous post was Trends , not Apocalyptic. I was attempting to explain the trends towards reduction of interest in TCMA over time and over certain time periods and in the now. One is of course how modern life draws humans to more simplified less complex and even superficial activities. I mentioned how there are differences in cultural families such as the Chinese family bonds are traditionally stronger that the American Style and the Muslim Chinese (Hui) family bonds were the strongest . In the latter case there is nothing like a pre-existing open-to-anyone contract kill order in the Koran for apostasy to keep a family together lol.
    ...
    So those are factors. Modern life has diminished the family structure. But I said specifically in North America, to add to this weakening, leftist-progressive governments have deliberately set out to kill family business and farms such as the NDP in Alberta (war on farms)and the Bureau of Land Management in the USA (war on ranchers) (to merely scratch the surface) And yep, that's another bad rap for the BLM acronym - lol. This of course destroys structures that bind families together throws them out in the great urban-alienation matrix.

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    So then you look at how kung fu will continue in family structures or clubs or government run organizations. People who are socialized with Mommy and Daddy being the State are less likely to be attracted to Traditional Family type TCMA, they just don't hold the family values for that. They are more likely to practice in commercial clubs. However on the other side, in what I believe to be a coming heavy repression in North America they maybe driven to such practices in order to go underground as the obvious social clubs may become persecuted in the near future by the Government who will begin to consider them para-military organizations.
    So that is all --> trends, not apocalypse.
    ..
    As for the second item, this is nothing so trivial as choice of language or looking up something the dictionary. "Mommy" and "Daddy" for undamaged natural human beings are emotional terms of bonding not some abstract words in the dictionary. Cultural Marxism is a tool meant to destroy the relationships between human beings. To censor and traumatize children , to change mommy and daddy to caregiver # 1 &2 etc is to sterilize or lobotomize them emotionally. Cultural Marxism is a deliberate program to destroy the traditional social order at the psychological level, to induce mental illness, emotional illness, in the population or to do in this case what I call Induced Identity Dysfunction. It is done for the purpose of control.
    ...

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    What this means for kungfu is that the raw material for intake ,the recruits are more likely to be damaged.
    Kungfu TCMA is holistic and integrative , more so than the simplified MA like Taekwondo, MMA and Karate (at least the popular styes). However, like in my signature, one of the core ideas of TCMA is transformation. The carp continuously tries to breach the Dragon Gate and those that do become Dragons.
    This is a very difficult process even for the healthy normal person.

    In the induced mental illness, induced through negative socialization, the person's energies and emotions are working against themselves, In those induced dysfunctions m the person internalizes the outward repression against themselves This is seriously destructive towards any integration of Mind-Body-Spirit/Emotion. Transformation takes total commitment and TCMA starts with a healthy person and makes them into a superhuman. .
    Everything inside has to be flushed out, the emotional pipes have to be flushed. Energies and emotions have to be brought up vigorously from the core. Mind body and emotion have to work together and emotional spirit drives the machine. The apparent stillness of suppression is not vitality and prevents a person from transforming.
    Kungfu would have to be curative towards this first before going to work on it's regular path, Well, TCMA can be played at different levels but the core is transformation. There is what I think Adam Hsu calls his 100 day transformation and what he calls going "Up Mountain" (上山), which is to embark on immersive training to such intensity that a person transforms over a specific period of time.
    ..
    So, we have the carp that are so fearful they cannot say if they are boys or girls, they have been traumatized by simple words like "mommy" and "daddy" and emotionally lobotomized to not knowing the difference between a rock and another carp. So much fewer of them will be inclined to try to jump the Dragon Gate, though it would do them a lot of good, and much fewer of them will make the transformation. That is not the depth of it, the depth is much more detail, much more extensive but I just put it in simple entertaining terms.
    ..
    That's my idea. Under normal circumstance even the TCMA has to burn out the normal everyday habitual tensions of inhibiting socialization but the current onslaught to dehumanize human beings is no small thing and it has an effect on people in attempting success in the physical arts.

    To continue any discussion of Cultural Marxism, I created a topic in the OT Forum
    Link ===> http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...-North-America
    Last edited by wolfen; 10-31-2016 at 07:10 AM.
    "顺其自然"

  13. #13

    The White Boned Terror comes to North America.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Lol, ^ This is simplistic alarmist propaganda.

    Also, it was a motion towards inclusiveness and recognition of the change in family structure that is more apparent every day.
    ..
    The so called nuclear family isn't really the only thing there is anymore. There's lots of variation on what constitutes families now and the motion towards inclusive language cuts off at the pass any attempts to demoralize or oppress those who do not fit into a rigid framework that is only subscribed to by an ever smaller portion of the population.

    I put my complete response to you in the OT Forum

    link ===> http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...-North-America

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    Last edited by wolfen; 10-31-2016 at 07:11 AM.
    "顺其自然"

  14. #14
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    wolfen:

    Believe it or not, you're not the only person who is aware of these and similar trends, or who can think for themselves. But not everybody posts about it in every other thread. I get it; it's something you want to get out there and make more people aware of. But coming across as defensive or even superior is not the most productive way to get your point across.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 10-31-2016 at 11:37 AM.

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    To regret the present and remember a past golden age is to step on the path to extinction. True manhood, true manliness is to survive and thrive in any environment. Ultimately all modern kungfu is about recovering lost or deferred masculinity.

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