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Thread: Okinawan Karate: True Combat Art

  1. #46
    Bruce Lee was totally impressed by Nishiyama when he first saw him. He also believed the same of Ben Largusa of kali.

  2. #47
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    Contrast those with the early clips we have of the likes of Uechi and others of the Okinawan arts and you see the differences.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjF66bbw-Q8
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #48
    Jimbo, I believe some of those SD moves will work. Like the club and knife. It is based around commitment. Most untrained people tend to fully commit their attacks leaving themselves off balance. Hey I did it to sometimes. As for distance of fighting or tournament fighting if one likes, this happens if the initial contact breaks and does not go to ground. People tend to keep distance. So I believe in fact it is a genuine real life fighting distance. Distance allows for a lot of the so called non functional moves to all of a sudden work. The reactionary gap is enough to allow for it.

    Also, local and customs. Perhaps Japan ( I don't know for certain) was based around accepted challenges where as Okinawa was more about sucker punching. I used to refer to Karate as the Ultimate SUCKER PUNCH arts.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 12-22-2016 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Contrast those with the early clips we have of the likes of Uechi and others of the Okinawan arts and you see the differences.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjF66bbw-Q8
    Thanks I think Uechi is the most beautiful of the Okinawan arts and highly effective. I always believed Isshin Ryu is like Uechi personally.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Contrast those with the early clips we have of the likes of Uechi and others of the Okinawan arts and you see the differences.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjF66bbw-Q8
    Thanks, SR. I agree. And I also like watching the Uechi-ryu system.

    Here is an episode of Kung Fu Quest dealing with the relationship between karate, and more specifically Goju-ryu, and southern White Crane styles. When I was living in Taiwan, I saw lots of various styles of White Crane. It seemed like you would see even more of it outside of Taipei.


  6. #51

    5 Ancestors

    since we are also discussing White Crane

  7. #52

  8. #53

  9. #54


    Shimabuku and Uechi were really good friends. What do friends do ?
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 12-22-2016 at 06:10 PM.

  10. #55

    The man I believe should be head of Isshin Ryu



    But it tradition states eldest son so be it.

  11. #56

    Theoretically, ideally and potentially

    this should be all one ever needs.

    Most Isshin Ryu teach to solar plexus. NO , Sternum !

    John McSweeney refered to this as a heart stop punch. Vertical fist fits better.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 12-22-2016 at 07:58 PM.

  12. #57
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    The southern kung fu ties to Okinawan karate can't be denied, nor are they.
    White crane and Five ancestors are the most common BUT also southern mantis and southern dragon ( Uechi-ryu).
    That said, they were adapted to "Te" and while the influence is there, Okinawan karate is NOT simple an "off shoot" or a "poor man" kung fu.

    It is a vibrant, dynamic and unique collection of systems.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    The southern kung fu ties to Okinawan karate can't be denied, nor are they.
    White crane and Five ancestors are the most common BUT also southern mantis and southern dragon ( Uechi-ryu).
    That said, they were adapted to "Te" and while the influence is there, Okinawan karate is NOT simple an "off shoot" or a "poor man" kung fu.

    It is a vibrant, dynamic and unique collection of systems.
    Agreed. I couldn't have said it better.

    The Shorin-ryu system claims roots (or at least influence) from northern Shaolin (Shorin = Shaolin), which sets it apart from other Okinawan systems if that's true. I don't know how northern style would have been studied by an Okinawan or otherwise brought to Okinawa, though some (many?) say there is an influence.

    I've known of some CMA people who previously studied karate (whether Okinawan or Japanese style) who then turned around and started putting karate down. Even though I stopped training karate decades ago and am more suited to CLF, I've never lost respect for karate or any of the other previous arts/methods I studied/was exposed to.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 12-23-2016 at 08:19 AM.

  14. #59
    This has been a great thread Jimbo. Thank you. It makes me have to dust off the cobwebs of research done long ago. The internet helps tremendously because we have so many coming from different points of view and linage research. Combined to give a more ideally accurate picture. Okinawa was uniquely positioned and a huge trade port of centuries. All came there eventually.

    There are some that believe that Thai and Western was major influence at points in time.

    Makes sense. Not exactly Okinawa but they would be included in much of this timeline and that of Chinas and just about every Asian and western country - http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/japanese.html

    Look at very old western boxing manuals and you will see things that look like karate and kung fu. Now this could be passed off as we are all human and there are only some many ways. Or as Mickey pointed out. The Monkey Theory. Which I agree is likely but I more so believe in this case it was based on trade of goods and MA were on board from their homeland. If those that recall. Savate influence Thais or is it the other way around. Both I would suggest.

    The old manuals. Stance, guard, ATTITUDESs , etc. The similarities are just there. But what happens once information is exchanged is a phenomenon called native interpretation and adopting to what is face in their local.

    Old Thai likely looked a lot more like Okinawan Karate than its modern variant.

    Was the Jingwu influence by western methods at the turn of the last century ? I don't know for certain. More, could the same have happened a century before that as well ? Obviously not as a whole at first. Certain locals and then ideas spread.

    We as a whole across the globe may once again be adopting closed door attitudes to outsiders of ones country. This has happened many, many times throughout history. Limited access in and out. Time will tell if that is unfolding or not today.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Any and all. What are your conclusions on this happening not only in karate and Long Fist as Jimbo has heard but across all the Chinese schools some of you with greater understanding have seen
    Greetings,

    One thing that we need to observe about China, Japan and Okinawa was the level of social stratification, either by culture or subjugation, that existed during the early 20th century (which is not to say it no longer exists). The fall of the Ching Dynasty left many military men without jobs. The same can be said about Japan. Now, do you teach people in these "lower" classes the stuff you learned to keep them in line? Would you give them the secrets?


    mckey

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