Let's talk about PHONY KUNG FU

[Zui Quan]

In brazil,we have THOUSANDS of phony masters of all kinds martial arts and,like always,kung fu is the worst victim of this.

For example,we have this huge "McDojo" enterprise that says they teach "ancient oriental knowledge from 5000 thousand years" that originated from argentina called PAKUA (no,they don't teach baguazhang).others would the TSKF kung fu school were their praying mantis style has questionable origins and morally questionable marketing strategies and "luohan institute" were STARTED as a phony kung fu school,but,it got certain credibility when they got contacts with shaolin master shi deyang.

How is the situation of phony kung fu and martial arts in your home country?

[PalmStriker]

Hello Zui Quan, Welcome to the forum! I think you may find any old school Kung fu in Brazil taking a low profile back seat in your country because of the popularity of Brazilian Jujitsu and Capoeira. Is Karate and the Korean Arts represented and taught in Brazil by Japanese and Korean Masters? Here in the United States you will see (initially from migration) more TCMA and traditional Japanese and Korean Arts available taught by lineage family members where authenticity has been preserved. Once you promote MA for sport and commercial enterprise you may lose some of the purport and essence of the original styles. There are ways to cross-reference what is being taught so that you will know if you are learning traditional lineage art-form. Most students will not care whether or not they are learning traditional TCMA or Bung bu bu.

[uki]

phony is as phony does.

[rett2]

Authentic styles are just made-up (or "phony") styles that have been around long enough.

In some cultures creative people have had to mask their inventions behind some ancient tradition because it would be arrogant to claim they made it up themselves. Phony? Maybe, maybe not. Just how things are done sometimes.

So if a "phony" school seems good and the the teachers are able and respectable people, why worry about it? And if you find cultish power-games, nonsense and superstition in an authentic school, maybe it's better to avoid it. Look for what's really important. Just 2¢

[Zui Quan]

Authentic styles are just made-up (or "phony") styles that have been around long enough.

In some cultures creative people have had to mask their inventions behind some ancient tradition because it would be arrogant to claim they made it up themselves. Phony? Maybe, maybe not. Just how things are done sometimes.

So if a "phony" school seems good and the the teachers are able and respectable people, why worry about it? And if you find cultish power-games, nonsense and superstition in an authentic school, maybe it's better to avoid it. Look for what's really important. Just 2¢

That is the problem,though.In "authentic" styles,the creators tend to actually have knowledge and experience in fighting techniques,independant of the "legends" of their style or what they believe. In most phony schools,they teachers don't have that,let alone being "able" and "respected" people. Remember ashida kim? The phonys here are on his level,just not as rich or famous....

[uki]

Authentic styles are just made-up (or "phony") styles that have been around long enough.

In some cultures creative people have had to mask their inventions behind some ancient tradition because it would be arrogant to claim they made it up themselves. Phony? Maybe, maybe not. Just how things are done sometimes.

So if a "phony" school seems good and the the teachers are able and respectable people, why worry about it? And if you find cultish power-games, nonsense and superstition in an authentic school, maybe it's better to avoid it. Look for what's really important. Just 2¢

depending on which economy you are embracing, 2 cents goes a long way...

[bawang]

phony kung fu is what westterners want.

[Jimbo]

How is the situation of phony kung fu and martial arts in your home country?

In the city I live in, there is a variety of KF styles, but I can't say I'm aware of any phony kung fu. Regarding Chinese styles alone, AFAIK there is: CLF, Taiji (Yang, Chen, etc.), Xingyi, N. Mantis, Hung Gar, Wing Chun, Bagua, etc. There used to be a very good school of Lung Ying (Dragon), Mok Gar, and Liuhebafa, but the teacher retired and moved away. There are at least a couple of modern wushu academies here, and I recently noticed a new Shaolin academy. There may be other Chinese styles, but since I no longer check out MA schools and rarely mix in the MA world anymore, I wouldn't know.

There's plenty of legitimate kung fu, and I'm not aware of any 'phony' kung fu around here. For the most part, like most of the karate schools now, it's all low-key. This city is a big MMA/BJJ mecca. That's what's visible mostly. I think that phony kung fu would be a tough sell.

For a short while there were some Oom Yung Doe schools which were a definite scam (and a cult). They are long gone. In their ads they claimed to teach a combination of arts that included kung fu.

I have a younger female cousin who is a black belt in something called "Shaolin Kenpo", but that is a modern Americanized, hybridized karate style (basically a substyle of Kenpo karate) which, IMO and in spite of the name, couldn't really pass itself off as traditional Chinese kung fu if it tried to. The name itself is weird as it's both Chinese (Shaolin) and Japanese (Kenpo). Kind of like calling a style 'Karate chuan/quan'. But she seems pretty good at it, so I wouldn't consider it a phony MA, just not a traditional Chinese or Japanese style.

[mrshungkuen]

In brazil,we have THOUSANDS of phony masters of all kinds martial arts and,like always,kung fu is the worst victim of this.

For example,we have this huge "McDojo" enterprise that says they teach "ancient oriental knowledge from 5000 thousand years" that originated from argentina called PAKUA (no,they don't teach baguazhang).others would the TSKF kung fu school were their praying mantis style has questionable origins and morally questionable marketing strategies and "luohan institute" were STARTED as a phony kung fu school,but,it got certain credibility when they got contacts with shaolin master shi deyang.

How is the situation of phony kung fu and martial arts in your home country?

With much of Chinese martial arts lineages can not always be traced. Some know one or 2 instructors in the lineage and after that it is "China". Many bad Chinese teachers do also exist. But in a way, what is bad, what is good? If a person likes it and becomes happy of it it is real enough.

Nowadays more and more online kungfu courses to learn kungfu. I saw a 3 animal kungfu course, praying mantis courses, 5 animal kungfu courses and more.

If you learn and you like it then it is okay! Stay critical about several online courses and find a real teacher.

[macpark]

Nowadays more and more online kungfu courses to learn kungfu. I saw a 3 animal kungfu course, praying mantis courses, 5 animal kungfu courses and more.

If you learn and you like it then it is okay! Stay critical about several online courses and find a real teacher.

These "learn kung fu / martial arts online" courses are popping up everywhere. I school near me now does it with gratings via skype. This just sounds crazy to me. Watching videos of martial arts is fine as long as then a person can correct you in IN PERSON. You cant do this via video sorry. We are gonna have all these 20 years old Kung Fu masters and Karate black belts running around in the next few years who have never met another martial artist or even been hit before...

[mrshungkuen]

These "learn kung fu / martial arts online" courses are popping up everywhere. I school near me now does it with gratings via skype. This just sounds crazy to me. Watching videos of martial arts is fine as long as then a person can correct you in IN PERSON. You cant do this via video sorry. We are gonna have all these 20 years old Kung Fu masters and Karate black belts running around in the next few years who have never met another martial artist or even been hit before...

I never thought about video learning a whole system. Ofcourse i use some videos as reference for forms that i have learned as a back up.

Do you considder video learning totally useless and ineffective?

[GeneChing]

Do you considder video learning totally useless and ineffective?

I don't consider any learning totally useless and ineffective. Besides, our primary sponsor MartialArtsMart.com sells instructional videos. That's part of what pays to keep the lights on here at the KungFuMagazine.com forum.

[macpark]

I don't consider any learning totally useless and ineffective. Besides, our primary sponsor MartialArtsMart.com sells instructional videos. That's part of what pays to keep the lights on here at the KungFuMagazine.com forum.

Vids are a great reference. But im more talking about "Train online" schools. I wont post a link to one in my area out of respect to them but if you look around you will find them.

[macpark]

I never thought about video learning a whole system. Ofcourse i use some videos as reference for forms that i have learned as a back up.

Do you considder video learning totally useless and ineffective?

No i use video for helping me remember forms and being able to watch my sifu's exact hand position etc. It allows me to progress with certain aspects faster. But as the ONLY way to train from beginner through the belts is just crazy. If I wasnt practicing with other people I would be nowhere. Sure my forms might be fine but the rest a mess. Video has its place but its not a viable way to train full time like many places now offer. "learn from home".

Interestingly my Grandmaster was once asked about videoing himself doing forms etc for training. "if you are having trouble remembering then you should train more". We now use video for students as reference and its great but I see his point lol. IN an ideal world I would train 5 days a week at class