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Thread: Puny, Ugly, Weak Europeans Compared to Dignified, Tall, Strong Native Warriors

  1. #1
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    Puny, Ugly, Weak Europeans Compared to Dignified, Tall, Strong Native Warriors

    The pictures speak for themselves. Many Native American men upon contact with Europeans were well over 6 feet tall. Regions such as Montreal, Delaware, Virginia, New England, even Missouri. I myself am 6'3", although I wish I was taller, like 6'7", the height of a basketball player. It is said that some of the first settlers to Long Island, New York, the 6'7" Native men made an English farmer, surname Smith, pick up an Ox as a test: if Smith could walk around his property carrying the Ox without dropping it, which he did, then Smith was "okay" by them. This incident was like an "ice-breaker" between early colonial and Native relationships in that area (Long Island.)

    Native people were : farmers, fishers, villagers, and conducted commerce by trade, etc. They weren't so much "nomads" as history books claim, as much as having Summer homes (settlements) and winter homes. They were opportunistic about their real estate, although they did not attach any monetary value to anything; to the ancestors, all of creation was sacred and had it's value/ place. There was a great Algonquian Alliance throughout much of the whole country; in many parts of what is today the United States and Canada. They did not live in "savage" times. For instance, the Powhatan Confederacy of Virginia were Algonquian people, the Lenne-Lenape of Delaware/ New Jersey area, again Algonquian, Shawnee of Missouri-- Algonquian, Ojibway of Manitoba-- Alqonquian, the people of Long Island, New England states and Quebec, and maritime Canada-- all for the most part Algonquian people. For instance, meeting sites at Turner's Falls in Massachusetts in pre colonial times hosted people as far away as the Ohio River Valley. All inter-related and good relations. Much like the homigeny of the Han Chinese people for instance. Everywhere in North America, the mound-building and pyramid-building culture existed, power places of great spirit.

    Whenever I see drawings depicting early encounters of Native people with white European colonizers, the contrast between the two different groups of people is striking. Native people are always depicted more in shape, towering over the Europeans. Take this picture for example. I think this is from the Montreal area. Look how dignified the Native group is, compared to the European group- some of the faces on the Europeans look horrified or worried-- they know that compared to their new Native American neighbors, they are incompetent, lawless and weak:

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qByUyKvWL...by_Vernier.jpg

    The picture below depicts a Native Warrior from the Powhatan Confederacy, supposedly next to the infamous John Smith. The Native man towers in height and strength over the treacherous John Smith:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...h_Pamunkey.jpg

    And what about the Jamestown massacre? The colonists probably stole the Native's food supplies, and more than likely desecrated some of their sacred places along the way (it is known for sure this is what happened with early Pilgrim/ Native conflict in New England.)

    Germ warfare. In some cases 80-90% of the Native population declined as well as entire villages (east coast). There is scant evidence that the "black plague" in Europe was intentional. If powers-that-be formulated the Black Death before they even went to the "New World", it is possible that they knew what they were doing, ie, unleashing intentional germ warfare.

    Also, Native people never sold any land for a few beads and some Wampum (purple shell-- purple, the holy color of chiefs and kings). They saw this as an exchange of friendship, only to quickly learn that the colonists were back-stabbers. Shiny tin cans and buckets would have been considered an interesting substitute in place of sacred objects such as quartz stones, because they reflected light in certain ways that was conducive with the ancestral spiritual beliefs of Native people. Early treaties that were signed were not viewed as treaties. Native people did not realize what it meant (at first.. and there were many firsts in many different areas!) to the European governments--- how could they! Later, treaties were signed at gun point, if at all.

    And lastly, the oral tradition is a valuable format for transmitting information from one generation to the next. In fact, in North America, Native people have a reputation for being "great orators." Native flood and earthquake legends which the geologic record of our modern times has now confirmed, retain the memory of these past events which occurred as far back as 5,000-6,000 years ago! For instance, the same earthquakes and floods that broke Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket from mainland Massachusetts, and shaped out Long Island of New York into it's modern shape, are the very same floods and earthquakes that were experienced in other regions of the Atlantic seaboard; such as the island of Crete (North Africa, Mediterranian), the catastrophes that annihilated the Minoan culture on the island of Crete, and the list goes on, such as the Azores islands, etc. The modern volcanic activity on the island of Iceland, as well as some of the Virgin Islands in the Carribean which sometimes go off today, are a remnant of the volcanic activity that rocked the Atlantic seaboard in ancient times. When I stare out onto the Great Blue Hill in the distance, from which Massachusetts gets it's name, I wonder what lay beyond that mountain other than ocean so long ago.

    There will come a time when the curse that the Europeans brought upon this land will be lifted. The plague will cease to exist, but first people need to become morally straight with themselves and their neighbors. A higher code of ethics needs to be planted and left to bloom in people's minds and relationships. Focus on the creative narrative, on the life process. Good advice. Thanks, Rob, for shooting it straight.
    Last edited by MarathonTmatt; 02-07-2017 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sounds like butt hurt.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Sounds like butt hurt.
    It was late at night for me writing this. Helped me un-wind!

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    Back in 1979, on my sole trip to the east coast, our school group visited a colonial-era house in the Boston area. The house...doorways, rooms, fireplace, stairs, pots and pans, etc...were very tiny. The house felt uncomfortably cramped. We were told that the colonists back then were physically small due to their type of nutrition (or lack of it).

    Many Westerners of European descent say how physically small most (for example) Japanese are, but that also had to do with the type of nutrition. If you look at ancient samurai armor, it almost looks sized for a child. But nowadays with better or different nutrition, MANY men in Japan are easily 6' or over. Both of my grandfathers were very tall for Japanese of their time; one just over 6' and the other just under that. In fact, that would have been good-sized even for a Westerner of the time. They were both born in the late 1800s, when most Japanese were very short, probably the same as most colonial Europeans.

    If you've ever visited preserved homes/buildings from the pioneer days of the old west, you will see that the homes, the beds and other furniture were still small by today's standards.

    Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 02-08-2017 at 08:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post

    Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.
    Hi Jimbo-
    Very good points to consider (your whole post). It can be surmised then, that a lot of pre-contact Native people in N. America were living a lifestyle- fresh air, plenty of physical activity/ work to involve oneself in, and nutrition-wise, that was conducive to an ideal lifestyle, rather than a "savage state". A lot of people think that they only drank water, but that is not the case- they drank maple sap/water too, as well as teas from the roots of many plants/ herbs, and even sometimes fermented brews. Cultivated corn probably has something to do with it too (lifestyle/size/nutrition)- it is as if modern people are catching up, reaping the nutritional benefits of corn. Corn is not a wild plant and must be cultivated by humans. Academics have proclaimed that corn is indigenous to the Americas which it very well could be, but there is apparently evidence that it was used in ancient times in parts of Asia too.
    Speaking of cultivated plants, other cultivated cereals such as wheat, barley and oats is a mystery as to when and who first cultivated those cereals. Those grains showed up in Mesopotamia/ Fertile Crescent around 5,000 years ago, but by who... it is as if they appeared over-night-- there is no rhyme or reason to it, this unexplained phenomenon seemingly appeared one day over-night, no further explanation ever explained. I am also suspicious of some fruits such as Grapefruit, (delicious) which seem to be a splice between something like an orange and a larger melon. Today they are mostly grown in Florida. It really makes me wonder. I remember when I was a kid, there was a poster of a person parachuting hung up on the library wall. Later as an adult, I heard the quote: "Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open!"

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    **Corrections: Cereal grains such as wheat, oats and barley have been domesticated by humans for over 10,000 years. The advent of agricultural societies in the Fertile Crescent were firsts in terms of agricultural/ irrigation/ domestic animal practices, not so much the grains they harvested, apparently harvested for thousands of years prior (still interesting).

    My hunch about grapefruit was correct. It turns out it is a splice between a sweet Jamaican variety of Orange and an Indonesian Pomello fruit (which are big). However, it's origins are within the last few centuries it turns out.**

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    Interesting info, Matt. IMO, there is a LOT about ancient (and not-so-ancient) history that people do not know, or have forgotten.

    Thought this might be interesting:

    https://rephaim23.wordpress.com/2015...7-foot-giants/

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    it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.
    Last edited by bawang; 02-09-2017 at 03:54 PM.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    It was late at night for me writing this. Helped me un-wind!
    It's cool Matt. Everyone is an emotional wreck every now and then.

    Hey Im a nose bleed away from all white right ? Very few Indians would accept me.

    Plus I support President Trump 100%.

    Sorry about the gas deal but the world runs on petrol.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.
    Actively resisting what Bawang ?

  11. #11
    The funny thing is, is those that did not vote for Trump wanted a puny, ugly, weak European decent woman to be our President ?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Back in 1979, on my sole trip to the east coast, our school group visited a colonial-era house in the Boston area. The house...doorways, rooms, fireplace, stairs, pots and pans, etc...were very tiny. The house felt uncomfortably cramped. We were told that the colonists back then were physically small due to their type of nutrition (or lack of it).

    Many Westerners of European descent say how physically small most (for example) Japanese are, but that also had to do with the type of nutrition. If you look at ancient samurai armor, it almost looks sized for a child. But nowadays with better or different nutrition, MANY men in Japan are easily 6' or over. Both of my grandfathers were very tall for Japanese of their time; one just over 6' and the other just under that. In fact, that would have been good-sized even for a Westerner of the time. They were both born in the late 1800s, when most Japanese were very short, probably the same as most colonial Europeans.

    If you've ever visited preserved homes/buildings from the pioneer days of the old west, you will see that the homes, the beds and other furniture were still small by today's standards.

    Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.
    Yeah that amour is small. But I suspect Japan had really big tall guys ( think Sumo ) even in those days. Just as People of European decent had big, small and in between guys too. Washington was 6'3. Franklin 5'9. A bit taller than myself. The Irish have 7 foot tall warriors under some building I forget the name of. I forget the time they attribute to them walking the earth.

    Every place had big and small people. Medium size predominates every where.

    Also, Dempsey was part Cherokee.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 02-09-2017 at 04:22 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.
    Well, I know your writing style and know you are over generalizing. Yet there is a great gold nugget of truth in what you say (most people are too pea-brained to realize this about your posts)... the colonial powers that spread it's arms all over the globe... war is still being waged in the middle east. War torn areas have created conflict zones. can modern people and traditional people even co-exist? I see YouTube videos of European people's reactions to Muslim mosques in their countries. The Muslims will shoo away drunks, prostitutes and general rebel rousers, obnoxious people/ etc. from walking down the street past their mosque in the cities. This could be anywhere in the West. I don't blame them for that. Keep the holy place sacred. In N. America the Creek stone temples in the southeast (as an example such as in Georgia)-- the tradition was, no hunting allowed within a 2 mile radius of the stone shrines/ temples (on hilltops), and the people visiting had to take their footwear (moccasins and such) off. People living near these places today-- I would say a good chunk of people don't even know that such structures once existed right under their nose, never mind knowing anything about it and why these places were sacred, etc. So I don't blame Muslim people in cities patrolling the riff raff outside their mosques. However, how realistic is it for them to be in a modern city doing this. Ultimately probably not too realistic. "Nothing sacred anymore." At least not in the plastic/ modern matrix of things.

    I wouldn't call Native people as being from a bygone era though. I won't argue about defeated. If they weren't defeated, at least in a sense, they would still be in large and in charge of the island of Manhattan, NYC for instance. Of course this is not the case. Native people and Native culture is not bygone though. Pushed to the fringes of society but not bygone... not totally. Native people and descendants of Native people are still here all over the place. I am one of those people and am proud of the ancestry on my native side.
    Last edited by MarathonTmatt; 02-09-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    The funny thing is, is those that did not vote for Trump wanted a puny, ugly, weak European decent woman to be our President ?
    lol, so true! so many things wrong with Hillary Clinton that people aren't even aware of. I think it went like this: Trump won the electoral votes. I think he was set up to win in advance, and he knew it, that is why he did not campaign as hard. During the first debate, he shook Hillary's hand with a dominant handshake and said "I want you to be happy." Meanwhile, Hillary campaigned and raked in millions and millions of dollars in campaign donations that went straight to the Clinton Foundation, much of which her and Bill will use at their own personal expense. I think she ran and "took the money and run." Of course, the public at large is not privy to this. I think the United States' government is corporatized, and has trillions in debt which is why they brought Trump in because he knows how to deal with that kind of stuff. A lot going on behind the scenes that the public doesn't know about. The time has come for the US government to get strong on it's deals, trades, policies, etc., or else there will be a collapse/ breakdown of society-- so the person that will do those things without batting an eye-lash is now in the White House. I have my criticisms, but all in all, understanding it from my pov, I think a lot of people who are freaking out just don't understand the first thing.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    lol, so true! so many things wrong with Hillary Clinton that people aren't even aware of. I think it went like this: Trump won the electoral votes. I think he was set up to win in advance, and he knew it, that is why he did not campaign as hard. During the first debate, he shook Hillary's hand with a dominant handshake and said "I want you to be happy." Meanwhile, Hillary campaigned and raked in millions and millions of dollars in campaign donations that went straight to the Clinton Foundation, much of which her and Bill will use at their own personal expense. I think she ran and "took the money and run." Of course, the public at large is not privy to this. I think the United States' government is corporatized, and has trillions in debt which is why they brought Trump in because he knows how to deal with that kind of stuff. A lot going on behind the scenes that the public doesn't know about. The time has come for the US government to get strong on it's deals, trades, policies, etc., or else there will be a collapse/ breakdown of society-- so the person that will do those things without batting an eye-lash is now in the White House. I have my criticisms, but all in all, understanding it from my pov, I think a lot of people who are freaking out just don't understand the first thing.
    Yes. Washington DC is in fact Incorporated. Since 1802. That is the location of our Federal Government. Our nations Capitol. Never a hidden fact. No great conspiracy.

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