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Thread: Ancestor of Shorin-ryu?

  1. #1
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    Ancestor of Shorin-ryu?

    Am trying to pinpoint which art, or cluster of arts went into the formation of the Shuri-te systems. Many of the movements bear a striking (pardon the pun) similarity to those found in Songshan Shaolin. Would I be correct in assuming those arts played a part, or was it exclusively the Southern 5 Ancestor & white crane systems as is commonly taught?

    specifics?

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    I have heard that Shorin-ryu was based on Shaolin (northern), as opposed to other Okinawan karate systems, which were based on southern systems. 'Shorin' means 'Shaolin'. Maybe someone who really knows will chime in.

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    Shorinji Kempo

    Check out my article Shaolin Temple Dahongquan in our SEP+OCT 2015 issue. The article is on Ryo Eguchi, our 2014 Songshan Shaolin Champion. Ryo is black belt in Shorinji Kempo, which isn't the same as Shorin-Ryu, but there might be some information in that article that can further your research. Ryo discusses the connection between Shorinji Kempo and Songshan Shaolin in the article.
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    that's Shotokan lmao

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    it's "connected".
    Shorinji and shorin ryu aren't the same and they aren't representative of north shaolin kung fu really.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Oolong View Post
    Am trying to pinpoint which art, or cluster of arts went into the formation of the Shuri-te systems. Many of the movements bear a striking (pardon the pun) similarity to those found in Songshan Shaolin. Would I be correct in assuming those arts played a part, or was it exclusively the Southern 5 Ancestor & white crane systems as is commonly taught?

    specifics?
    Shorin Ryu, Shorinji Ryu, Shuri-Te and Shorinji Kempo are all different. Shorinji Kempo is not even from Okinawa but allegedly Manchuria. Shorin (and Shorinji) Ryu has its roots in the local Shuri Te and Tomari Te styles. It is the style of Anko Itosu's students.

    There is a different lineage for every single Kata in Shorin Ryu. I am quite convinced all of them came from Fujian or were developed in Okinawa. One focal point is Kojo Isei's Dojo in Fouzhou. The Bubishi lists White Crane, Monk Fist, Monkey, Tiger, and Drunken boxing. Some forms like Sanchin (Shorin used to have it) and Seisan are common to many styles.

    The Ryukyu kingdom sent diplomatic missions and students to Beijing, but these probably had other business than pugilism.
    Last edited by Cataphract; 02-10-2017 at 06:01 AM.

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    a lot of the karate history smells bullsh1t. shorinjis original chinese material is like 8 stances. and is called yihequan which is like chinese kkk boxing. like come on thats sketchy as hell.

    and kanbun uechi supposedly teaching in nanjing and being undefeated yet nobody heard of him there. like come on.

    shuri te origin is clear as hell. the forms have names "uncle wang" and "brother an" or somehting. thats their origin right there.

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  8. #8
    Shorinji Kempo is not Karate. It's a Japanese religious sect doing its own brand of martial arts. One episode of BBC's Way of the Warrior is about it. It's on YouTube and worth watching.

    Uechi has nothing to do with Shorin Ryu. But I agree that it is hard to distinguish fact from noise.

    Here is what Anko Itosu taught:
    Pinan 1-5 (invented by Anko Itosu on Okinawa)
    Naihanchi 1-3 (Chinese origin, Half Hillock-Half Crane???)
    Bassai Dai/Sho
    Wanshu (by ambassador Wang Ji)
    Chinte
    Seisan (Zimen Quan)
    Chinto
    Jutte
    Jion
    Kūshankū Dai/Sho (by ambassador Kushanku)
    Rohai 1-3
    Gojushihō Dai/Sho
    Last edited by Cataphract; 02-10-2017 at 01:41 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    that's Shotokan lmao
    Shotokan comes from Shorin.

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    Sorry if I muddled this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract View Post
    Shorin Ryu, Shorinji Ryu, Shuri-Te and Shorinji Kempo are all different.
    True, I was just replying to Oolong in a general sense on Shorin as a term, not so specific to the style, and that archived article just popped into my mind (gotta sling the mag, doncha know?) In this sub forum archive, there is also this thread: Songshan Shaolin and Shorin Ryu.
    Gene Ching
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    I'm sure everybody already knows this, but Shorinji Kempo literally translates into "Shaolin si Quan Fa" (Shaolin Temple Fist method) in Mandarin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract View Post
    One focal point is Kojo Isei's Dojo in Fouzhou. The Bubishi lists White Crane, Monk Fist, Monkey, Tiger, and Drunken boxing.
    Interesting... Monk Fist, as in Luohan? (or the Southern version thereof?) Would make a hell of a lot more sense if that's the case.....

    I mean, it all originated from Damo anyway, rite?


    Thanks for the linkage Gene.... will have to check out that article when I'm back on dry land.

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    Speaking of Shotokan, came across this little gem online
    https://youtu.be/oYp-1O6lk0Y

    If that doesn't have a Northern flavor, I don't know what does

  14. #14
    Shotokan was changed cosiderably on the Japanese mainland. See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gig%C5...anges_in_style
    I think what many perceive as northern fist influence really is co-evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oolong View Post
    Interesting... Monk Fist, as in Luohan? (or the Southern version thereof?) Would make a hell of a lot more sense if that's the case.....
    Nan Luohan. It was taught to Sokon Matsumora (one of Anko Itosu's teachers) by a man called Iwah in Fuzhou .

    Quote Originally Posted by Oolong View Post
    I mean, it all originated from Damo anyway, rite?
    That is a bit controversial. I bet there are a lot of threads on that topic.

    Btw. Chatan Yara who started the Shuri lineage was a Xingyi Quan practitioner.
    Last edited by Cataphract; 02-11-2017 at 10:04 AM.

  15. #15
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    Here's the biggest thing to remember when talking about any karate/kung fu connection.

    The okinawans had their own indigenous art called "te" that had striking. The also had their own brand of grappling called "tegumi".

    Shorin-Ryu was based on what they liked about kung fu and incorporated it into what they were doing. This is why you will NEVER find a kung fu style that looks almost like any of the karate styles, or a direct kata from a kung fu style in karate. They didn't import and teach "kung fu". They learned aspects of it and added it to their own thing. In Shorin-Ryu, they named certain katas after things that they learned from chinese martial artists. Wansu, Kusanku, Chinto for example were inspired by what they learned from Chinese martial artists.

    If you look at a kata like "Seisan", it was an old okinawan kata that was used as a template for what they like, so you will see different flavors of Seisan based on if it is a Naha based style (Uechi or Goju) or the Shuri based styles (Shorin).
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