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Thread: Wind and Fire Wheels.

  1. #1

    Wind and Fire Wheels.

    Hello! I've come here seeking answers to some questions, even though I have, unfortunately, no experience in chinese martial arts. I hope you don't mind!

    I wish to ask about the wind and fire wheels. From what I've gathered they seem to be used in bagua and taichi? I've also understood that a wheel with only two blades extending from the handle is a bagua version, and one with three "flames" is a taichi version. Am I completely mistaken? Also what is the version with multiple small blades extending all around the ring? Is everything I think I know about these wrong?

    Thank you for allowing me to post on this lovely forum of yours!



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  2. #2
    real weapon was called hoop and was a hoop. it was used by mongols as thrown weapon. Sikhs also use it. the slicing action from the ring means it just has to touch you whereas knives and javelins can bounce off. since it floats horizontally like Frisbee it makes it very easy to aim and use and can follow target for long distance. hoops with points are armor piercing.

    any asymmetrical hoops that cant be thrown are fake and all hoop forms are fake.
    Last edited by bawang; 02-23-2017 at 02:20 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Here are some references

    Wind Fire Wheels
    Taiji Wind And Fire Wheels
    What Weapon is this????

    And from the magazine: The Tai Chi Ch'uan Wind-Fire Wheels: A Nearly Lost Chinese Weapon Returns to the Scene (NOV 99)

    I was befriended by the late Dr. Sun. I remember hanging out with him at a Southern CA tournament. He was a gentleman and well respected in the wulin for his courtesy and etiquette. He was also tall for a Chinese man of his age. He gave me autographed editions of both his books, which I have in storage somewhere. However, those books were primarily step-by-step illustrations of the form, with little attention given to history and cultural context.

    MartialArtsMart.com used to carry them. There was a contingent of practitioners that followed Dr. Sun while he was alive, so we sold them regularly. But since he passed, there hasn't been anyone to take up his mantel, so sales dropped and MartialArtsMart.com discontinued carrying them. It always fascinated me however that these weapon were popular enough to be mass produced by Chinese weapon makers as they weren't that popular in PRC. I only saw them very rarely.

    I've always propounded this the Nezha connection for Wind and Fire Wheels. That makes the most sense to me. Traditional Opera had a profound effect on the Chinese arsenal, one that most researchers overlook.

    Nezha-shi and Zisun-dan
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Wind Fire Wheels
    Taiji Wind And Fire Wheels
    What Weapon is this????

    And from the magazine: The Tai Chi Ch'uan Wind-Fire Wheels: A Nearly Lost Chinese Weapon Returns to the Scene (NOV 99)
    Thanks, I tried searching the site, but for some reason I got nothing, maybe I just furiously typoed. Also, As I'm pretty new to this, is there some way to read that specific 99 story without getting an actual physical copy of that 99 magazine? Only the cover story can be read online?

  5. #5
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    Sorry Paliandro

    We only put the cover stories up for our back issues. That's in part because because we still offer the back issues that we have available. If memory serves, the article was by Dr. Sun or from his camp. Unfortunately I'm not at leisure to look that one up but I can do so tomorrow if you're really interested.

    And I must correct my earlier post about MartialArtsMart.com - Wind and Fire Wheels are still offered there. Not sure how I overlooked that earlier. Perhaps my caffeine hadn't quite kicked in yet.

    One more thing - the first photo you posted is not a Wind & Fire Wheel.

    This weapon is very similar but it is usually called a Snake Ring. MartialArtsMart.com used to offer those too but they never sold. I don't think I've ever even seen that demonstrated live. There are a lot of weird Chinese rings.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  6. #6
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    Hoops and rings, these are non-conventional Chinese weapons. So that is why they are not popular.



    Regards,

    Steve Lau
    Hong Kong

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    real weapon was called hoop and was a hoop. it was used by mongols as thrown weapon.
    Don't know about the Mongol connection.

    It was part of a Ming era novel called Feng Shen Yanyi 封神演義 about Nezha.

    Nezha was a warrior with supernatural powers. He travelled on wind-fire wheels and fought with a fire lance. A short summary of his battle with Jiugong...

    Deng Jiugong was a fierce warrior who brought a great halberd to battle Nezha. As the two warriors approached each other two armies stood in ready formation. What Jiugong didn’t know is that Nezha had a magic weapon called the Universal Ring 乾坤圈. They battled for over thirty rounds and Nezha’s fire spear still couldn’t defeat Jiugong’s halberd. Nezha stealthily pulled out his ring and threw it at Jiugong. The Universal Ring smashed into Jiugong and broke his arm. Nezha’s army attacked and Jiugong barely escaped with his life.

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