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Thread: Training

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Are you trying to compare skill or method? He has been to training with PB in Europe along with European students. The drilling is pretty standard.
    Method.
    Thanks. Yeah I am sometimes near their area and may stop in if the opportunity presents itself...so just wanted to know if what they do (or at least the stuff in the video) looked the same or similar. Thx.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    If you are making a fist, you are learning an alphabet and if you are taught how to use it and where, you are learning a sentence.
    It's all fine and dandy THINKING you are doing something special and unique, as long as you realize that THINKING something doesn't make it so.
    There is no appication based training in WSL VT. I would suggest you try it.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Hogwash.
    Doesn't matter if you THINK this sort of thinking doesn't exist because it quite clearly does.
    You can call it "concept based dish washing" and it won't change what it is.

    Seems like you guys are simply doing what everyone else is and calling it something else, which is fine but don't think that it makes WHAT you are doing anything special.
    That said, I will give you the "different approach".
    This is not correct. Why comment from a position of ignorance?

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Are you telling me that you never even ONCE told or showed someone how to make a fist? where to hit with it?
    There is no stimulus respnse training in WSL VT. This is what application based training is. WSL VT not a reactive system

  5. #50
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    Guys,

    If someone tells me the sky is pink despite all evidence to the contrary and nothing can change their minds it is hardly worth it to keep trying.

    It is pretty obvious to me that we will not all agree.
    No point in continuing the argument of whether something has applications or is application based.

    Of course without some common ground some things are unable to be discussed.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Guys,

    If someone tells me the sky is pink despite all evidence to the contrary and nothing can change their minds it is hardly worth it to keep trying.

    It is pretty obvious to me that we will not all agree.
    No point in continuing the argument of whether something has applications or is application based.

    Of course without some common ground some things are unable to be discussed.
    I think a bit off to compare a fact about WSL VT with the sky being pink despite all evidence to the contrary. Nobody here has any evidence about what constitutes WSL VT apart from those who do WSL VT. And yet there seem to be a lot of opinions about it. Strange

  7. #52
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    You do not need to be a mechanic to drive a car
    And no matter how confident in your ability to understand the principle of driving, if you don't know how to put those principles into action you will never be a good driver.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Correct!

    And how many times has this strawman been taken down on the other forum? Several dozen, easy!

    Yet, here he comes again back to singling out PB for some reason to pit him against other well-known instructors.

    A very dishonest and divisive person...

    So you're calling me a liar again???? Look, you have described your understanding of WSLVT and how it is trained. When footage or writings from WSLVT people are pointed out that contradict what you have been saying and describing, your response has always been along the lines of ....they aren't doing "real" WSLVT! The only time you have provided footage that supports what you are saying, it is of PB or one of PB's students. So the obvious conclusion is that what you are describing probably comes from PB. I am not being dishonest about that!

    I've said I don't follow your whole thing about "no applications in WSLVT" and you say I must be a moron because it has been explained to me multiple times in the past. But the problem is it has never been explained adequately or explained well! I see some logical flaws in what you are saying. And I'm not the only one! Multiple people have said the same in the MT forum in the past, and it seems that both Dave and Sanjuro have seen it here recently. I am not being dishonest about that!

    You said the WSLVT forms don't teach applications, and so I provided footage of WSL himself teaching applications from the forms. He showed using the rearward palms from the SNT form to break a rear bear hug, the Jeep Sau movement from the CK form to break a lapel grab, and others. You never even attempted to explain how these were NOT actually examples of applications from the forms. Your response was simply to say I don't know what I'm talking about.

    You call me divisive, but you are the one with a track record of taking shots at anyone that does things differently than your WSLVT or anyone that questions what you believe. Just look how nasty Guy B. can get about things! Just look how negative you were about TWC and the shots you took at Phil. And you call me divisive?

    You and Guy B. have gotten downright nasty.....like people threatened by someone challenging their religous beliefs! In the process you've called me a liar, a troll, a moron, autistic, and a psychopathic *******. I really don't think I'm the one with the problem here!

    So, like Dave said, it is time to agree to disagree. But when you start calling something "application-based" in a derogatory way, or telling someone their Wing Chun is "broken" because it does not match your understanding of WSLVT, then I might just have something to say about it!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I think a bit off to compare a fact about WSL VT with the sky being pink despite all evidence to the contrary. Nobody here has any evidence about what constitutes WSL VT apart from those who do WSL VT. And yet there seem to be a lot of opinions about it. Strange
    I don't know why there is this strange desire to insist that we are doing the same thing without knowing and despite explanations clearly showing we are not.

    To reach this conclusion they have to play with words and ignore what "1:1 technique application" means. It's really a dishonest tactic.

    Just strange why they feel the need to do this.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    So you're calling me a liar again????
    Yes, because here you are with the same lie I have corrected now 5 times yet again!

    calling something "application-based" in a derogatory way
    the shots you took at Phil.
    This is a lie as well. I never said anything personal to or about him.

    You never even attempted to explain how these were NOT actually examples of applications from the forms. Your response was simply to say I don't know what I'm talking about.
    The problem is you don't know what you're talking about.

    You have been told why he showed things like that to certain audiences (seminar attendees, occasional visitors), and what his legit, longterm students all learned from him.

    But you don't want to go learn from or listen to any of them. You'd rather "learn" VT by yourself online, the way you learned most of your other stuff.

  11. #56
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    All these from one thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM
    and how you often use your term in a derogatory way when referring to other systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ
    Being application-based is not negative, unless your applications are unrealistic like TWC's.

    This has been explained to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ
    This is pre-planning, and this is 1:1 application. There is nothing wrong with this approach, so long as your applications aren't unrealistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM
    whenever you or other WSLVT guys have called something "application-based" it has been in a somewhat negative sense if not out-right derogatory.
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ
    Most MAs are application-based, and that's fine. It's only negative if your applications are unrealistic.
    Then after all this;

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM
    I'll leave this here for those that look down their noses at "application-based" training.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2O6mQkFiiw
    And now again!

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    when you start calling something "application-based" in a derogatory way
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    you've called me a liar, a troll, a moron, autistic, and a psychopathic *******.
    So, if you're not one of these things, then please tell me WTF your problem is!

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    You do not need to be a mechanic to drive a car
    And no matter how confident in your ability to understand the principle of driving, if you don't know how to put those principles into action you will never be a good driver.
    You do need to know some factual details about the practice of WSL VT in order to draw any conclusions about WSL VT. If people will stop jumping to conclusions without any knowledge, e.g. you, Sanjuro Ronin, KPM (although he is just trolling), then I am sure the discussion can move forward in a productive way.

    I have no idea why people are treating it as some kind of offensive thing that we train in a different way?
    Last edited by guy b.; 04-14-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I have no idea why people are treating it as some kind of offensive thing that we train in a different way?
    It might be because there's no actual evidence that you actually train differently than anyone else apart from some posts post seem to have a problem believing, there's also no evidence even if you do train differently that it's better or even effective, only one person from PBs wsvt has ever posted a clip of themselves, or rather had one posted and it was terrible.

    Now there's plenty of examples of how elite sportsman and fighters train, and it sounds very different to what you are talking about, what i cant understand is why others care? Seriously 11 pages plus on this, it's not like wsvt is producing people cleaning up in full contact matches or challenge matches and we all want a piece of the magic....

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    So you're calling me a liar again???? Look, you have described your understanding of WSLVT and how it is trained. When footage or writings from WSLVT people are pointed out that contradict what you have been saying and describing, your response has always been along the lines of ....they aren't doing "real" WSLVT! The only time you have provided footage that supports what you are saying, it is of PB or one of PB's students. So the obvious conclusion is that what you are describing probably comes from PB. I am not being dishonest about that!
    Yes you are being dishonest about that. LFJ has mentioned others who teach mainstream WSL VT. You like to focus on the ones that have changed the system by their own admission or who have an incomplete understanding. This is because you are trolling.

    I've said I don't follow your whole thing about "no applications in WSLVT" and you say I must be a moron because it has been explained to me multiple times in the past. But the problem is it has never been explained adequately or explained well! I see some logical flaws in what you are saying. And I'm not the only one! Multiple people have said the same in the MT forum in the past, and it seems that both Dave and Sanjuro have seen it here recently. I am not being dishonest about that!
    Why are you jumping to contrary conclusions about something you have never experienced? You must indeed be a moron, or a troll.

    You said the WSLVT forms don't teach applications, and so I provided footage of WSL himself teaching applications from the forms. He showed using the rearward palms from the SNT form to break a rear bear hug, the Jeep Sau movement from the CK form to break a lapel grab, and others. You never even attempted to explain how these were NOT actually examples of applications from the forms. Your response was simply to say I don't know what I'm talking about.
    This is because WSL's teaching at seminars has been explained to you before. This sort of thing is not WSL VT

    you've called me a liar, a troll, a moron, autistic, and a psychopathic *******

    So, like Dave said, it is time to agree to disagree. But when you start calling something "application-based" in a derogatory way, or telling someone their Wing Chun is "broken" because it does not match your understanding of WSLVT, then I might just have something to say about it!
    There is nothig derogatory about calling something application based. I am not sure why you have such a chip on your shoulder about the term. I have trained several excellent application based systems and it can be a valid approach.

    A wing chun system being broken is the result of inconsistency or contradiction in understanding. Getting angry with someone pointing this out is insane because they are helping you.

    If you don't like being called names then stop being a lying, tolling, autistic, psychopathic moron. Thanks

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It might be because there's no actual evidence that you actually train differently than anyone else apart from some posts post seem to have a problem believing,
    Plenty of video and explanations. It's not a question of belief.

    there's also no evidence even if you do train differently that it's better or even effective
    Anyone could go find out whether it is or not.

    Now there's plenty of examples of how elite sportsman and fighters train, and it sounds very different to what you are talking about,
    Because we don't do set responses?

    what i cant understand is why others care?
    Right. If you're not willing to go find out, it's quite bizarre to sit here and make assessments from a position of complete ignorance.

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