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Thread: Training

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    The boxing and judo training methodologies are entirely different, with judo containing a lot more cooperative training and application based training. Judo is also a martial art with strategy and ideas for fighting, boxing not. There is a standardised approach to teaching judo, no such thing for boxing, it being only a set of competition rules. Different boxing coaches have their own theories or styles, some good, some not so good. Utterly different. Makes me wonder if you ever tried either?
    Seriously Have you ever done any boxing???
    While there are certainly some variance I think you will find that all boxing training has the same punches, bag work, mitt or pad work, footwork and sparring etc. Again, some differences but all built upon the same platform.

    I also think that most coaches would say their fighters have to have a plan or "strategy" when they enter the ring.

    Please keep posting as this is truly enlightening.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b.
    Makes me wonder if you ever tried either?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Seriously Have you ever done any boxing???
    Lol at the same line right back, sounds a bit desperate.

    Yes I did quite a lot when I was younger

    While there are certainly some variance I think you will find that all boxing training has the same punches, bag work, mitt or pad work, footwork and sparring etc. Again, some differences but all built upon the same platform.
    You could only possibly think this if you had trained at the most superficial level, e.g. boxercise? There is a world of difference between different boxing trainers. Bag work and pad work vary immensely and are very personal, end goal of training on same apparatus can be very different. Many variations exist in footwork, methodology, and ring strategy to the extent that learning from different trainers can be akin to learning a different style altogether.

    I also think that most coaches would say their fighters have to have a plan or "strategy" when they enter the ring
    Ring strategy appropriate for a competition under boxing rules, not for fighting

    Please keep posting as this is truly enlightening
    I am very happy to keep helping you to learn about things you haven't experienced before. Just ask if you need anything else.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    The last line is somewhat arrogant and tends to insinuate an air of superiority.

    ?
    Which comes across on a regular basis regardless of how much they try and deny it.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Amount you can fit in and physical condition are intensely important for sport styles. Many things you see working in MMA, boxing, MT and other comp formats only work because the competitors are incredibly well conditioned young males training daily. Much of it is very inapproporiate to an old guy like you, especially as martial arts for fighting rather than weekend hobby.

    They also (with the exception of BJJ, some Judo) lack strategy for the fight and ideas about fighting, i.e. they are not martial arts systems.

    I think that most people have good access to decent sports based MA in most developed countries, me included. The reason that I do WSL VT is that it provides something not available from those other sources. It means nothing to me if you try WSL VT. No idea why you keep commenting on the wing chun forum really?



    If you were being consistent then by your own criteria for judging MA systems you should reject Bak Mei. It doesn't make logical sense for you to be training this system, given what you tend to say here. Why the inconsistency? This is really strange.



    The boxing and judo training methodologies are entirely different, with judo containing a lot more cooperative training and application based training. Judo is also a martial art with strategy and ideas for fighting, boxing not. There is a standardised approach to teaching judo, no such thing for boxing, it being only a set of competition rules. Different boxing coaches have their own theories or styles, some good, some not so good. Utterly different. Makes me wonder if you ever tried either?
    A simple strategy and principle i have seen taught by every coach i have ever worked with in boxing is not to throw a power shot until you are in range to land it you never want to over extend it as it leaves you open for a counter. this is taught via pad work, bag work and varying levels of sparring, it is taught directly by technique work , another is to use your jab to get in range to land your power shots and to keep your opponent at range, again this is a strategy taught directly through technique work on the pads and in partner work, using exactly the same technique in training as you would in an actual fight.

    Another boxing strategy is if you need to get your front foot on the outside of your opponent's if he is a south paw, this is taught directly through technique work on the pads and sparring. Gasp strategy taught via technique usage.

    Similarly a strategy and principle in judo is to off balance your opponent and to attach him to you before you throw him, this is taught via uchikomi drills, throw isolation drills and randori with different levels of resistance. For instance on an ippon Seoi nage i ensure their is distance between us i initial a upward pull as i turn in order to raise my opponents base into his toes and continue to spin attaching him to my back, i don't reach back with my other arm to catch the arm i wanting throw him with because that breaks my structure, another judo strategy is always speak to keep your structure and break there's, i only throw when he is attached and off balanced, if he pulls back i drop to an normal Seoi nage so i am not meeting force with force another judo strategy, or comrpmisif my base without breaking his....Look three basic judo principles and strategies taught using one technique...

    And also notice that all are re-enforced and drilled into our via drills directly related to, and closely resembling your competition format using techniques you will use in that environment

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    A simple strategy and principle i have seen taught by every coach i have ever worked with in boxing is not to throw a power shot until you are in range to land it you never want to over extend it as it leaves you open for a counter. this is taught via pad work, bag work and varying levels of sparring, it is taught directly by technique work , another is to use your jab to get in range to land your power shots and to keep your opponent at range, again this is a strategy taught directly through technique work on the pads and in partner work, using exactly the same technique in training as you would in an actual fight.

    Another boxing strategy is if you need to get your front foot on the outside of your opponent's if he is a south paw, this is taught directly through technique work on the pads and sparring. Gasp strategy taught via technique usage.

    Similarly a strategy and principle in judo is to off balance your opponent and to attach him to you before you throw him, this is taught via uchikomi drills, throw isolation drills and randori with different levels of resistance. For instance on an ippon Seoi nage i ensure their is distance between us i initial a upward pull as i turn in order to raise my opponents base into his toes and continue to spin attaching him to my back, i don't reach back with my other arm to catch the arm i wanting throw him with because that breaks my structure, another judo strategy is always speak to keep your structure and break there's, i only throw when he is attached and off balanced, if he pulls back i drop to an normal Seoi nage so i am not meeting force with force another judo strategy, or comrpmisif my base without breaking his....Look three basic judo principles and strategies taught using one technique...

    And also notice that all are re-enforced and drilled into our via drills directly related to, and closely resembling your competition format using techniques you will use in that environment
    This answers nothing in the post you were responding to

  6. #126
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    Amount you can fit in and physical condition are intensely important for sport styles. Many things you see working in MMA, boxing, MT and other comp formats only work because the competitors are incredibly well conditioned young males training daily. Much of it is very inapproporiate to an old guy like you, especially as martial arts for fighting rather than weekend hobby.
    As a 51yo old, can you tell me what things that wont work for me, in boxing, given that im not an " incredibly well conditioned young males training daily"?


    The boxing and judo training methodologies are entirely different, with judo containing a lot more cooperative training and application based training. Judo is also a martial art with strategy and ideas for fighting, boxing not. There is a standardised approach to teaching judo, no such thing for boxing, it being only a set of competition rules. Different boxing coaches have their own theories or styles, some good, some not so good. Utterly different. Makes me wonder if you ever tried either?
    Yes, that whole jab, cross, hook, uppercut, slip, weave, duck, lead leg, rear leg, lead hand, rear hand, weight transfer, leg loading,hip positioning, rhythm development, partner drills, footwork drills, pad work, floor to ceiling bag work, bag work and so on is just random stuff chucked together with no "standardised approach".......

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I guess he thinks he's like a matador, toying with you, waiting to strike the final blow
    Comparison to a matador is pretty accurate considering all the Bullcrap you guys are posting.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    if you two (not to mention Kevin) are an example of the normal everyday student attracted to this particular form of wing chun why would anyone want to try it?
    Amen to that Frost!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Your answers are like the following:

    Question:
    How would one get to City Hall from 123 Park Ave in anytown USA.
    Please provide specific directions. ?

    Your answer:
    We drive there.

    Response:
    Please be more specific, can you provide actual directions?

    Your response:
    We do not use directions, we just go there.

    Response:
    That makes no sense and is not any help.
    It also does not answer the question

    Your response:
    It does answer the question in great detail.
    You are just incapable of understanding.

    Response:
    Not worth asking as no answers are forthcoming.


    That is an example of how you seem to respond.
    Of course, to your mind you have answered in great detail.
    The truth is that the rest of the world would seem to not agree.

    That is funny as hell and spot on Dave!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post

    I don't care about Frost's videos. I was mocking him, because none of the "evidence" he demands from others is forthcoming from himself.
    Again with the irony! I'm....dying....here!

  11. #131
    The best way to 'train' is simply to fight. Then learn, then fight summor. Stay with with your master but study closely others. Get your nose bloody. You will live and fight again.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  12. #132
    Marlon Brando got his nose broke by Jack Pallance back stage of the movie Street Car Named Desire. Gave him the profile that is now legndery
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-14-2017 at 10:14 PM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That is funny as hell and spot on Dave!
    Entirely inaccurate.

    The degree of detail in my responses has been proportionate to the questions.

    Question:
    How would one get to City Hall from 123 Park Ave in anytown USA.
    Please provide specific directions. ?

    Your answer:
    We drive there.


    The above is not at all comparable to this exchange:

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    When you guys do Chi Sau (which no one is saying is fighting) do you use Taun, Bong and other "techniques"?
    Do you ever use these "techniques" in fighting?
    If so then I would submit that you train applications.
    No. In pun-sau, taan and fuk are antagonistic training tools for developing VT punching. Neither are "techniques" for fighting. Bong ensures squared facing while training the punches, and helps prevent overturning for example in seung-ma/teui-ma drills.

    We don't fight with both arms equally extended like this, and none of this will show up as "techniques" in fighting.
    Response:
    Please be more specific, can you provide actual directions?

    Your response:
    We do not use directions, we just go there.


    This does not reflect his followup. I requested he ask more specific questions if he wants more detail. He did not.

    In fact, it took him 5 pages of trolling to even follow up with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    If you have Taun, and other things in your poon sau or other training, and do not use those techniques when fighting, then what do you use???
    I said taan is a training tool for the punch. We punch in fighting, we do not use the training tool.
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    So all you do is punch people???

    You have no parries or ways to deflect attacks???
    VT punching has built in defensive capabilities. That's what taan and fuk train.
    Answers with detail proportionate to the questions, unlike his fake questions and responses.

    But after this he goes back to trolling:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    I have asked but you are unable or unwilling to answer.
    I have requested him to explain what part of the answers he is having trouble with, so that I might explain it further.
    Or if he wants more detail, I have requested that he ask more detailed questions.

    He has not attempted to engage. Not my fault.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    This answers nothing in the post you were responding to
    Are you being intentionally thick my original post was as follows
    Boxing and judo are very similar they both have strategies and techniques used to explain and enhance those strategies, they both drill from one end of the cooperative spectrum to the other, and both can post clips of their arts working in full competitons
    you said they were different, i never said they were the same i said they followed a similar way of teaching: teaching there strategy and principles directly through the application of techniques they will use in competition, isolating them first, adding resistance later...I then posted examples of how this is done since you didn't think it was right....

    What neither art does is say they don't have techniques or use a drilling training method that doesn't directly relate to how they perform under pressure....Because that's inefficient and ineffective.....And there's no prove such a method works outside of your also the other Muppets endless posts?

    I actually have a new question why are you still posting? Seriously it must be obvious to even you pair by now no one here believes anything you say, and since for some god known reason neither of you dare film anything what do you expect to chance??

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    a drilling training method that doesn't directly relate to how they perform under pressure....
    Our drilling method does directly relate to how we perform under pressure.

    We drill to improve upon footwork, timing, distance, facing, etc., and correct errors of over or under-reacting, freezing, overextending, overturning, leaning, chasing arms, various footwork errors, etc..

    All of this relates directly to how we perform under pressure.

    These errors are in fact found by training under pressure in sparring or fighting, then taken back to drills to be corrected, before pressure tested again to ensure the problems are resolved.

    It is very efficient and effective for our method.

    If you want proof that it works, go and experience the training.

    If not interested, don't worry about it.

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