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Thread: Training

  1. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    As a 51yo old, can you tell me what things that wont work for me, in boxing, given that im not an " incredibly well conditioned young males training daily"?

    Yes, that whole jab, cross, hook, uppercut, slip, weave, duck, lead leg, rear leg, lead hand, rear hand, weight transfer, leg loading,hip positioning, rhythm development, partner drills, footwork drills, pad work, floor to ceiling bag work, bag work and so on is just random stuff chucked together with no "standardised approach".......
    With the exception of rhythm development and bag work these are all basic techniques containing no strategic information. This comes from the coach, and is personal to him based upon experience. Bag and pad work and understanding varies a great deal.

    Boxing is not a good approach to fighting for old people because it relies upon excellent conditioning, teaches no strategy apart from ring strategy (is not a martial art), focuses only upon punching with no consideration of other aspects of fighting, focuses only on gloved punching (unsuitable for ungloved fighting), and teaches a sparring (ring strategy) rather than a fighting mindset.

  2. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    my original post was as follows you said they were different, i never said they were the same i said they followed a similar way of teaching: teaching there strategy and principles directly through the application of techniques they will use in competition, isolating them first, adding resistance later...I then posted examples of how this is done since you didn't think it was right....
    Good judo still teaches concepts and strategy directly whereas boxing teaching varies wildly with some not teaching anything. Examples like only hit when close enough to hit and don't stand in front of their strong hand is basic to any standup fighting. If that is what you have seen in terms of ring strategy then I would change coach because he isn't teaching you anything. Many coaches have quite detailed strategy but what is taught is ring strategy rather than fighting strategy. This is because boxing is not a martial art and doesn't relate directly to fighting.

    What neither art does is say they don't have techniques or use a drilling training method that doesn't directly relate to how they perform under pressure....Because that's inefficient and ineffective.....And there's no prove such a method works outside of your also the other Muppets endless posts?
    I don't think anyone said that VT drilling doesn't relate to perfomance under pressure, just that it isn't application based.

    I actually have a new question why are you still posting? Seriously it must be obvious to even you pair by now no one here believes anything you say, and since for some god known reason neither of you dare film anything what do you expect to chance??
    I am not aware of film clips from anyone else participating in this thread? Please post links, thanks.

    You forgot to answer these points by the way:

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b.
    Amount you can fit in and physical condition are intensely important for sport styles. Many things you see working in MMA, boxing, MT and other comp formats only work because the competitors are incredibly well conditioned young males training daily. Much of it is very inapproporiate to an old guy like you, especially as martial arts for fighting rather than weekend hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b.
    They also (with the exception of BJJ, some Judo) lack strategy for the fight and ideas about fighting, i.e. they are not martial arts systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b.
    If you were being consistent then by your own criteria for judging MA systems you should reject Bak Mei. It doesn't make logical sense for you to be training this system, given what you tend to say here. Why the inconsistency?
    The most important question you dodged is obviously the one about Bak Mei, which brings your entire argument into question. Look forward to your answer.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    The most important question you dodged is obviously the one about Bak Mei, which brings your entire argument into question. Look forward to your answer.
    ..........

  4. #139
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    With the exception of rhythm development and bag work these are all basic techniques containing no strategic information. This comes from the coach, and is personal to him based upon experience. Bag and pad work and understanding varies a great deal.
    Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
    The whole premise of boxing is "to hit and not get hit", its in everything boxing does. That's the strategy.

    Boxing is not a good approach to fighting for old people because it relies upon excellent conditioning
    You have got to be joking.


    ,
    teaches no strategy apart from ring strategy (is not a martial art), focuses only upon punching with no consideration of other aspects of fighting, focuses only on gloved punching (unsuitable for ungloved fighting), and teaches a sparring (ring strategy) rather than a fighting mindset.
    Once again, its the art of hitting without being hit..... not a bad strategy in a street fight.
    The rest of your post is even more nonsense, what the hell do you base your "ideas" on boxing on???
    Youve obviously done none.

  5. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    its the art of hitting without being hit..... not a bad strategy in a street fight
    Boxing is defined by its sporting rules- these make it what it is and what it isn't.

    Boxing is various different ideas and methods aimed at winning a competition under boxing rules. Some of these methods can be tangentially useful in fighting. But in order to be used for fighting the methods of boxing need serious adaption from someone thoughtful and experienced.

    Boxing isn't a martial art and it doesn't have a particular strategy for the fight, because it isn't directly related to fighting. There is no loi lau hoi sung, lat sau jik chung in boxing

  6. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    what the hell do you base your "ideas" on boxing on??? Youve obviously done none.
    I could say the same based upon what you write. But then you say you have done some boxing, which is sad to hear.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
    The whole premise of boxing is "to hit and not get hit", its in everything boxing does. That's the strategy.



    You have got to be joking.


    ,

    Once again, its the art of hitting without being hit..... not a bad strategy in a street fight.
    The rest of your post is even more nonsense, what the hell do you base your "ideas" on boxing on???
    Youve obviously done none.
    I agree with you Glenn. To suggest that boxing is not suited for street-defense simply because it is a ring sport is pretty silly and ill-informed. To suggest that a boxer doesn't use various strategies, or isn't directly related to fighting.....what can you say about that??

  8. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    To suggest that a boxer doesn't use various strategies
    No suh thing as "a boxer". No systematised approach. It isn't a martial art.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    No suh thing as "a boxer". No systematised approach. It isn't a martial art.
    I invite you to walk into any serious boxing gym and tell them that they don't have a "systematized approach", or that there is no such thing as a "boxer", or that what they do is "not directly related to fighting", or that they don't use good "strategy." Go ahead. Be my guest!

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I invite you to walk into any serious boxing gym and tell them that they don't have a "systematized approach", or that there is no such thing as a "boxer", or that what they do is "not directly related to fighting", or that they don't use good "strategy." Go ahead. Be my guest!
    Completely failed to comprehend what he said. Oh well... nothing new in that.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Completely failed to comprehend what he said. Oh well... nothing new in that.
    Are you saying he didn't actually mean what he wrote, or that he didn't actually say those things?

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Are you saying he didn't actually mean what he wrote, or that he didn't actually say those things?
    Neither. I think you haven't understood what he actually means by what he wrote.

    As I read it;

    "No systematized approach" means "boxing" is not one thing or style. In this sense, there is no one such thing as a "boxer". Two boxers may fight with wildly different styles and train differently to suit those styles.

    That means there is also no one strategy that defines "boxing". This doesn't mean boxing gyms don't teach strategy or have good strategy. Some do. Some don't. Every gym will be different because they are free to do what they find best in the ring, based on the coach's experience and for each fighter, bound only by ring rules and not codified into one style that is "boxing".

    "Not directly related to fighting" means that a lot of what a boxer does is unsafe outside of the boxing ring. Things like bobbing and weaving become dangerous when kicks and knees are possible. Stances are often susceptible to leg kicks or takedowns. A typical cover defense on the inside is easily penetrated when both fighters are bareknuckled and doesn't consider other dangers than punching. Many punches rely on the gloves to protect the hand and would be dangerous to the bareknuckled puncher.

    These things are not taking all possibilities of free fighting into account, only that which is within the ring rules of the sport. In this sense, it doesn't directly relate to fighting. This doesn't mean a boxer can't knock someone's block off in a street fight, though.

  13. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Neither. I think you haven't understood what he actually means by what he wrote.

    As I read it;

    "No systematized approach" means "boxing" is not one thing or style. In this sense, there is no one such thing as a "boxer". Two boxers may fight with wildly different styles and train differently to suit those styles.

    That means there is also no one strategy that defines "boxing". This doesn't mean boxing gyms don't teach strategy or have good strategy. Some do. Some don't. Every gym will be different because they are free to do what they find best in the ring, based on the coach's experience and for each fighter, bound only by ring rules and not codified into one style that is "boxing".

    "Not directly related to fighting" means that a lot of what a boxer does is unsafe outside of the boxing ring. Things like bobbing and weaving become dangerous when kicks and knees are possible. Stances are often susceptible to leg kicks or takedowns. A typical cover defense on the inside is easily penetrated when both fighters are bareknuckled and doesn't consider other dangers than punching. Many punches rely on the gloves to protect the hand and would be dangerous to the bareknuckled puncher.

    These things are not taking all possibilities of free fighting into account, only that which is within the ring rules of the sport. In this sense, it doesn't directly relate to fighting. This doesn't mean a boxer can't knock someone's block off in a street fight, though.

    Exactly, thanks

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Completely failed to comprehend what he said. Oh well... nothing new in that.
    Are you saying he didn't actually mean what he wrote, or that he didn't actually say those things?
    Neither. I think you haven't understood what he actually means by what he wrote.
    Also, lol at failing to comprehend what it means to fail to comprehend.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Rubbish, absolute rubbish.
    The whole premise of boxing is "to hit and not get hit", its in everything boxing does. That's the strategy.



    You have got to be joking.


    ,

    Once again, its the art of hitting without being hit..... not a bad strategy in a street fight.
    The rest of your post is even more nonsense, what the hell do you base your "ideas" on boxing on???
    Youve obviously done none.
    Give it up Glenn like most people who have never boxed they don't have a clue about what it takes to be good at boxing, you get the usual it's for the young, you have to be supremely fit and conditioned to box, train every day etc, no that if you are competing at a high level, otherwise you can train boxing the same way you train any martial art at any age and use it very successfully in a self defense situation, the irony is there are way more clips of boxers using their art in a self defense situation than wing chun...

    The other irony is they argue you will lose to a younger fitter conditioned boxer and that makes boxing useless for older people, yet somehow think wing chun is this great equaliser but again...Where's the proof it works against anyone let alone helps you defy the aging process LOL

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