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Thread: Training

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Correct. Putting VT to use, i.e. fighting, is not doing "applications".
    Then you really need to use a different word. We had a whole argumentative thread about this and it really just comes down to how YOU choose to define the word when it suits you best!

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Then you really need to use a different word. We had a whole argumentative thread about this and it really just comes down to how YOU choose to define the word when it suits you best!
    Whatever. The meaning of a word is in its usage, and it's clear what I mean.

  3. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Well, a typical cover defense without big gloves on either fighter and no rule against grappling is probably gonna cause you problems.
    As may bobbing and weaving if you get kneed or kicked in the dome, as well as your stance and footwork if leg kicks and grappling are possible.
    Not to mention some of your punching methods to avoid self-injury when bareknuckled.
    This is a double standard, boxing can be learned without the gloves and the exact same issues will be present if the person is doing Wing Chun, or any other art. Its not an issue applicable only to boxing. Your reasoning is a cop out.

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    These are a few things you will need to adapt to safely face a more free fighter than another boxer.
    If you don't make adaptations to this approach, the risk is yours to take. Just hope your attacker is unskilled.
    Again, same issues are present for a practitioner of VT or any other art.


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    You are contradicting yourself.
    No I'm not, does VT go all out when drilling, sparring or training new techniques versus actual fighting? The mentality of training, sparring and competition is way different than fighting to save your life. You telling me that VT practitioners always act or train as if their lives depended on it?


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    As guy said, your inexperience with VT is obvious. You are guessing here. Don't know why.
    Please, quit acting as if VT is so vastly different from other versions of Wing Chun that it is to be classified by itself, same sh!t, different packaging.



    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    The proof is in it's application, not in professional sports.
    Seems to me that the application only works on other compliant VT practitioners. MMA is the closest thing there is to a legal street fight, I've seen a multitude of styles try their luck, very few have survived the test, boxing has, and without big gloves and broken hands.


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    If you are simply unwilling or unable to examine the evidence, you are not justified in saying there is none and should probably not worry about it.
    I would be glad to examine the evidence, just haven't seen any that actually qualifies as evidence. Seen plenty of people playing patty cake, dominating non-resisting participants and demoing. Where is any actual FIGHT footage to support the claims?


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Boxing is a combative sport. So, that is to be expected.
    Boxing is a martial art that has a dedicated platform to field test its effectiveness. Does VT?


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    VT is not a combative sport. Those interested in combative sports are far more likely to train a combative sport like boxing than VT.
    So this is your way of saying that VT is essentially untested and unproven under spontaneous conditions and heavy pressure? Or, are you saying it's too deadly for competition?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    So, I'm not sure what your point is. It is like saying a offroad pickup truck is useless because it hasn't proven itself on the Formula One circuit.
    No I'm saying its fraudulent to claim a pickup is built for offroad when it is never taken offroad and tested.

  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Uh....hold on here! I thought WSLVT didn't do any "applications"!!!!!
    KPM, this is just dumb. Don't be dumb

  5. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
    I've been in WC for 25 years, been around the various lineages & offshoots and been in other arts for even longer. I have yet to see any branch of WC/VT outside of a few like, Allen Orr & Phil Redmond, actually put their interpretation to the test.
    I guess you mean you have been watching wing chun on the internet for 25 years, and trolling wing chun forums? That doesn't really count, you have to actually try it you know. It is pretty obvious that you don't know anything about the system.

    There's a reason why arts like boxing and wrestling have flourished on the world stage in real fighting competition, and WC/VT has not.
    Shocking that people training for particular combat sports do well in said combat sports. Unexpected and shocking

    continue to ramble on about how it's because only very few possess the "real" VT & the rest is watered down or broken without providing any actual proof outside your unrealistic theories
    Discussion of the ideas of VT is a simple way to show inconsistency in the ideas of VT. On a forum it is the only way.

    You two clowns hide behind your self perceived superior knowledge of all things VT, but never back up your claims and dismiss any real argument as fallacy
    This is a fallacy

    Let's see a video of either one of you sparring so that we can all be enlightened, let's see some fight footage of you against another art. You're so keen to point out other's inadequacies and lack of understanding, how about you defend footage of yourself. I bet it won't happen
    Lol, Frost?

  6. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
    This is a double standard, boxing can be learned without the gloves and the exact same issues will be present if the person is doing Wing Chun, or any other art. Its not an issue applicable only to boxing
    Sorry, this is just nonsense. None of the particular issues with boxing listed by LFJ are present in VT.

    Again, same issues are present for a practitioner of VT or any other art
    VT doesn't need adaption for fighting, it is designed for fighting, taking a particular strategy for the fight

    No I'm not, does VT go all out when drilling, sparring or training new techniques versus actual fighting? The mentality of training, sparring and competition is way different than fighting to save your life. You telling me that VT practitioners always act or train as if their lives depended on it?
    You are contradicting yourself because you said that boxing doesn't need adapted for fighting, before listing some ways that boxing needs adapted for fighting. This is the contradiction, nothing to do with VT. Just a mistake of logical thinking by yourself.

    But again you make a rather funny example of how you have no clue about the VT training methodology. Why not stop lying about your experience and just be honest?

    Please, quit acting as if VT is so vastly different from other versions of Wing Chun that it is to be classified by itself, same sh!t, different packaging
    While VT is indeed very different to some other wing chun that I have seen, it is fairly obvious that you don't know anything about ANY wing chun at all. You are just guessing after watching some clips on the internet.

    Seems to me that the application only works on other compliant VT practitioners
    How can it seem anything to you without first experiencing it? Lol

    I would be glad to examine the evidence, just haven't seen any that actually qualifies as evidence
    Off you go then. Report back.

    Boxing is a martial art that has a dedicated platform to field test its effectiveness
    Boxing is a rule set. People train in different ways with different beliefs and understandings and compete under that rule set. It is in no way systematised and so in no way a martial art.

    No I'm saying its fraudulent to claim a pickup is built for offroad when it is never taken offroad and tested
    Again you only show your lack of understanding of the VT learning process.

  7. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    I guess you mean you have been watching wing chun on the internet for 25 years, and trolling wing chun forums? That doesn't really count, you have to actually try it you know. It is pretty obvious that you don't know anything about the system.
    I know plenty about the system, just haven't guzzled down the kool aid.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Shocking that people training for particular combat sports do well in said combat sports. Unexpected and shocking
    Shocking that people who train in a method they claim is for fighting, yet don't actually fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Discussion of the ideas of VT is a simple way to show inconsistency in the ideas of VT. On a forum it is the only way.
    Hard to discuss anything with a fanatic



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    This is a fallacy
    No it isn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Lol, Frost?
    Sorry to disappoint, but no, I'm not Frost, are you Hendrick?
    Last edited by dlcox; 04-18-2017 at 11:10 AM.

  8. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Sorry, this is just nonsense. None of the particular issues with boxing listed by LFJ are present in VT.
    Prove it then. Cause right now you are only expressing your opinion.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    VT doesn't need adaption for fighting, it is designed for fighting, taking a particular strategy for the fight
    No it needs a complete revamping, but by all means go on believing in your delusions, I could care less.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    You are contradicting yourself because you said that boxing doesn't need adapted for fighting, before listing some ways that boxing needs adapted for fighting. This is the contradiction, nothing to do with VT. Just a mistake of logical thinking by yourself.
    Mindset towards a situation isn't strategy, its something that affects or determines strategy and tactic. Boxing has more than one approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    But again you make a rather funny example of how you have no clue about the VT training methodology. Why not stop lying about your experience and just be honest?
    I could care less about your belief that VT training methodology is something vastly different to every other branch of Wing Chun. It isn't, you only try to make it out to be so to set your cult apart from everyone else. Same sh!t, different diaper.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    While VT is indeed very different to some other wing chun that I have seen, it is fairly obvious that you don't know anything about ANY wing chun at all. You are just guessing after watching some clips on the internet.
    Now your just trolling in a poor attempt to get my goat, because you cant actually prove any of your claims.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    How can it seem anything to you without first experiencing it? Lol
    Who's to say I haven't, I never made that remark. You only assume that because on not on board with your belief that VT (WSL or PB) is the be all end all, perfect system of Wing Chun.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Off you go then. Report back.
    Reporting now, still didn't find anything cause it doesn't exist.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Boxing is a rule set. People train in different ways with different beliefs and understandings and compete under that rule set. It is in no way systematised and so in no way a martial art.
    This is a rich statement, VT has some of the most strict rule sets of any martial art, so much so that its rendered it nearly useless outside of itself. Why is it that every branch that actually free fights with Wing Chun against other styles has modified it to a point to where it is nearly unrecognizable as what many would consider Wing Chun? Let me guess, you're going to go on about how they never learned the real stuff and filled deficiencies in with other methods.



    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Again you only show your lack of understanding of the VT learning process.
    Think what you want. I think you don't understand what the real purpose of Wing Chun actually is.

  9. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    KPM, this is just dumb. Don't be dumb
    I really like how you two make ambiguous remarks so that you leave yourselves an opportunity to recant and change meaning to suit your narrative. You two really are top notch trolls, I'll give you that.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
    I really like how you two make ambiguous remarks so that you leave yourselves an opportunity to recant and change meaning to suit your narrative. You two really are top notch trolls, I'll give you that.
    This seems to be the WSLVT Kuen Kit for forum sparring:

    Receive what comes
    Be vague when pressed
    Rush in if you sense an opening
    Obfuscate when unsure
    Never elaborate TOO much
    Resort to name-calling when necessary

  11. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    This seems to be the WSLVT Kuen Kit for forum sparring:

    Receive what comes
    Be vague when pressed
    Rush in if you sense an opening
    Obfuscate when unsure
    Never elaborate TOO much
    Resort to name-calling when necessary
    Spot on, but you forgot to add hubris.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
    This is a double standard, boxing can be learned without the gloves and the exact same issues will be present if the person is doing Wing Chun, or any other art. Its not an issue applicable only to boxing. Your reasoning is a cop out.
    None of the listed issues would apply to VT because VT doesn't just cover up, doesn't bob and weave, etc..

    Again, same issues are present for a practitioner of VT or any other art.
    Again, VT doesn't do those things and so wouldn't need to adapt them to free fighting.

    The mentality of training, sparring and competition is way different than fighting to save your life. You telling me that VT practitioners always act or train as if their lives depended on it?
    VT trains to prepare for unplanned confrontation where there are no rules.
    Boxing trains to prepare for planned matches in a ring with rules and a ref.

    There is a list of things needing to be changed for boxing to prepare for the same thing VT is preparing for.

    Please, quit acting as if VT is so vastly different from other versions of Wing Chun that it is to be classified by itself, same sh!t, different packaging.
    To the profoundly ignorant, maybe!

    VT and TWC, for example, are entirely different approaches to fighting and fight training.

    Even where there are very superficial similarities, the interpretations and functions of those things are also entirely different. Recent discussions have made this abundantly clear.

    Seems to me that the application only works on other compliant VT practitioners.
    And you got this idea from watching training clips on Youtube, not from experiencing VT or trying your hand against it.

    I would be glad to examine the evidence, just haven't seen any that actually qualifies as evidence. Seen plenty of people playing patty cake, dominating non-resisting participants and demoing. Where is any actual FIGHT footage to support the claims?
    I'm not talking about surfing Youtube. Get off the internet and go try your hand at it.

    Boxing is a martial art that has a dedicated platform to field test its effectiveness. Does VT?
    Boxing is a combative sport with a platform for competition, as with all sports. VT is not a sport.

    So this is your way of saying that VT is essentially untested and unproven under spontaneous conditions and heavy pressure? Or, are you saying it's too deadly for competition?
    Neither. VT is tested and proven by those who train it or have the balls to show up and test it with their heavy pressure.

    It has not been proven to you personally because you are neither of those guys.

    No I'm saying its fraudulent to claim a pickup is built for offroad when it is never taken offroad and tested.
    What you mean by "offroad" is really in sporting competition.

    You are erroneously stating the "offroad" testing ground for a pickup should be the Formula 1 circuit, and fraudulently claiming pickups are useless because they haven't proven themselves on the race track.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Lol, Frost?
    Nah. Frost already ran for the hills.

    Doesn't matter who dlcox is, he's obviously... nobody important.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Nah. Frost already ran for the hills.

    Doesn't matter who dlcox is, he's obviously... nobody important.
    Ran for the hills, hope just remembered I had better things to do, seriously you two train a cultish version of a martial art widely considered one of the most incomplete Chinese styles out there, which if it wasn't for a dead actor would still be a unknown style dieing off in Hong Kong, and without said actor would best be known as that silly art used in those roof top slap fests going on between kids after school during the 60's in Hong kong

    Neither of our have the balls to post a clip of yourselves doing anything remotely martial, hell you wont even post were you train or with whom,not to mention the only one from wsl's lineage who were proved they could fight at all was wsl himself, a guy who ...Boxed before doing wing chun.

    Oh the irony the only one who could actually prove they could fight with wing chun was a boxer...

    Now if you two want to continue your mutual masterbation go for it, Christ at least Hendrick had the balls to actually put videos up,
    Last edited by Frost; 04-19-2017 at 07:42 AM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    you two train a *longwinded disparaging comment*
    I also have experience with other than VT, as has guy b., I believe.

    the only one from wsl's lineage who were proved they could fight at all was wsl himself, a guy who ...Boxed before doing wing chun.

    Oh the irony the only one who could actually prove they could fight with wing chun was a boxer...
    And he abandoned boxing in favor of VT because VT is so much less effective in free fighting, huh?

    at least Hendrick had the balls to actually put videos up,
    It doesn't take balls to put up videos. lol

    It takes balls to actually go try your hand at something instead of talking on a forum.

    Still waiting for your awesome Bak Mei fighting clips, though.

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