Training

[KPM]

Now if you two want to continue your mutual masterbation go for it, Christ at least Hendrick had the balls to actually put videos up,

But didn't you know Frost? Fight videos in PB-WSLVT lineage are not allowed. "Sifu sez"... and all that!

[LFJ]

But didn't you know Frost? Fight videos in PB-WSLVT lineage are not allowed. "Sifu sez"... and all that!

Cry about it.

[KPM]

Cry about it.

Just pointing out the reality. Stop talking trash about other people's Wing Chun when you can't produce anything to back up how wonderful your own Wing Chun is! Stop "crying about it" when people disagree with what you are writing when you can't produce anything to back it up.

[LFJ]

Just pointing out the reality. Stop talking trash about other people's Wing Chun when you can't produce anything to back up how wonderful your own Wing Chun is! Stop "crying about it" when people disagree with what you are writing when you can't produce anything to back it up.

I have not merely "talked trash" like the trolls in this thread. I've engaged in technical discussion, and it doesn't particularly bother me if anyone disagrees with my point of view, and no one here is "producing" anything. None even have the balls to go give VT a shot in person.

[guy b.]

Burp

Bak Mei Frost?

[dlcox]

None of the listed issues would apply to VT because VT doesn't just cover up, doesn't bob and weave, etc..

No, instead it relies on way more complex tactics that violate its own rules of simplicity, directness and efficiency.

VT trains to prepare for unplanned confrontation where there are no rules.
Boxing trains to prepare for planned matches in a ring with rules and a ref.

Yet, any public footage I've seen, the vast majority of Chunners are getting bulled over in a matter of seconds and end up in the fetal postion, because what they train is unrealistic. The same goes for most experience I have sparring with or fighting with Chunners. Very few could withstand any real pressure.

There is a list of things needing to be changed for boxing to prepare for the same thing VT is preparing for.

There is a long list of realism that VT needs to prepare for in order to actually work, most importantly, how to use the body to take a hit.


[QUOTE=LFJ;1302224]VT and TWC, for example, are entirely different approaches to fighting and fight training.

Even where there are very superficial similarities, the interpretations and functions of those things are also entirely different. Recent discussions have made this abundantly clear.{/QUOTE]

Minutia of terminology, interpretation of theory and arguments over whether to use Tan or Bong, hardly make them vastly different arts. Besides, TWC at least has the balls to put up fight footage to substantiate any claims, VT doesn't.

And you got this idea from watching training clips on Youtube, not from experiencing VT or trying your hand against it.

Tried it from both sides, I've nothing against the art, I find merit in it, just not in its current iterations. I've found better methods to do what suits me and my needs when it comes to actual fighting, ones that have a long history of actually being proven to work with high percentage under duress.

Boxing is a combative sport with a platform for competition, as with all sports. VT is not a sport.

That tired old argument, that it can't be used in competition because its for the street. Too many illegal and deadly techniques, blah, blah, blah. When the UFC and Vale Tudo first appeared on the US scene, there were very few rules and no weight classes. Closest thing to a street fight there was, no Wing Chun of any variation was present, did see some Tae Kwon Do, Karate and Hung Gar and Ninjutsu though. They tried, some did fairly well. Modern MMA is set up for safety of the fighters not getting their teeth completely kicked in like in the early days. The only WC/VT present now are systems that modified WC/VT to work under heavy pressure in a spontaneous environment against other skilled fighters. Right now, WC/VT is designed to fight against the unskilled in a self defense situation. It is designed for SELF DEFENSE not actual FIGHTING, big difference.

Neither. VT is tested and proven by those who train it or have the balls to show up and test it with their heavy pressure.
It has not been proven to you personally because you are neither of those guys.

This is nothing more than biased opinion, there is no evidence to support the claim beyond personal testimony. I have my own opinions about it, this is true, but not because I have never not tested it. Do I have personal proof? No, but then again I'm not here for that, I'm defending Boxing as a legitimate martial art for both ring and street, of which it has a long and verified history to it's claims. VT does not.

What you mean by "offroad" is really in sporting competition.
You are erroneously stating the "offroad" testing ground for a pickup should be the Formula 1 circuit, and fraudulently claiming pickups are useless because they haven't proven themselves on the race track.

No, what I mean is that you are making unsubstantiated claims that have no evidence to back them up. Offroad testing is just that, test it outside the presentation floor in the environment it states to be proficient in. You make claims but have zero evidence to support them beyond your personal beliefs.

[dlcox]

Ran for the hills, hope just remembered I had better things to do, seriously you two train a cultish version of a martial art widely considered one of the most incomplete Chinese styles out there, which if it wasn't for a dead actor would still be a unknown style dieing off in Hong Kong, and without said actor would best be known as that silly art used in those roof top slap fests going on between kids after school during the 60's in Hong kong

Neither of our have the balls to post a clip of yourselves doing anything remotely martial, hell you wont even post were you train or with whom,not to mention the only one from wsl's lineage who were proved they could fight at all was wsl himself, a guy who ...Boxed before doing wing chun.

Oh the irony the only one who could actually prove they could fight with wing chun was a boxer...

Now if you two want to continue your mutual masterbation go for it, Christ at least Hendrick had the balls to actually put videos up,

Lol, hits the nail right on the head.

[LFJ]

No, instead it relies on way more complex tactics that violate its own rules of simplicity, directness and efficiency.

Such as?

Yet, any public footage I've seen, the vast majority of Chunners are getting bulled over in a matter of seconds and end up in the fetal postion, because what they train is unrealistic. The same goes for most experience I have sparring with or fighting with Chunners. Very few could withstand any real pressure.

I don't doubt that. Most Wing Chun is indeed useless.

There is a long list of realism that VT needs to prepare for in order to actually work, most importantly, how to use the body to take a hit.

And the face? Hi, Nobody Important.

Minutia of terminology, interpretation of theory and arguments over whether to use Tan or Bong, hardly make them vastly different arts.

Interpretation of theory doesn't matter, huh? That's what forms the entire basis of a fighting system, and it is vasty different between VT and TWC.

Tried it from both sides,

That's not what you said over on MartialTalk.

That tired old argument, that it can't be used in competition because its for the street. Too many illegal and deadly techniques, blah, blah, blah.

This argument has not been made.

It is designed for SELF DEFENSE not actual FIGHTING, big difference.

"Actual fighting" means in sporting competition to you, right?

That's fine to say then. Exactly what you have been told.

This is nothing more than biased opinion, there is no evidence to support the claim beyond personal testimony.

Not biased and not opinion. It either has worked for people or it hasn't.

If you want evidence, you will have to get off the internet and go to it.

I'm defending Boxing as a legitimate martial art for both ring and street,

No one has said it is not "legitimate", provided it is properly adapted from ring to street.

No, what I mean is that you are making unsubstantiated claims that have no evidence to back them up. Offroad testing is just that, test it outside the presentation floor in the environment it states to be proficient in. You make claims but have zero evidence to support them beyond your personal beliefs.

You have refused to examine the evidence, is all. Why are you afraid to go try your hand?

[dlcox]

I have not merely "talked trash" like the trolls in this thread. I've engaged in technical discussion, and it doesn't particularly bother me if anyone disagrees with my point of view, and no one here is "producing" anything. None even have the balls to go give VT a shot in person.

Who says no one here hasn't tried VT? I have, didn't see much of a difference TBH. It wasn't any better or worse than any other branch, its just specialized and I didn't care for that. If I am force to choose between two systems of striking, VT or Boxing, I'm going with boxing, because it is a superior striking art in my opinion.

I think what you're really implying is that no one has tried your specific and exclusive branch of VT. What makes you think yours is so much better? What makes you believe that what you have is so vastly superior to everyone else's?

Your branch contains no grappling, mine does, and its theory is consistent with a method that incorporates grappling. Why would I chose to give up something I know works for my purposes? To give it all up and follow a system (that I've actually tried), a system that contradicts my beliefs and understanding of what the art was actually meant for, and limits my ability to do what I am naturally inclined to do. My Wing Chun is a great transition/bridge from Boxing to Grappling, that is what I use it for. VT (WSLVT or PBVT) cannot offer this.

Understandably, there isn't a system that is going to appeal to everyone, let alone a branch of Wing Chun that is going to appeal to everyone. There is no singular method of WC/VT that addresses all the issues that arise when it comes to self preservation. People will choose what best suits their interests and needs. The argument here isn't about those issues, its about your insinuations that VT is superior to boxing based upon your opinion and personal belief. You have presented no evidence and are unwilling to do so. Until you do, there is nothing to discuss.

[LFJ]

Who says no one here hasn't tried VT? I have, didn't see much of a difference TBH. It wasn't any better or worse than any other branch, its just specialized and I didn't care for that.

You yourself, on MartialTalk, unless you have been to a VT school in the last couple months. Which one did you visit?

I think what you're really implying is that no one has tried your specific and exclusive branch of VT. What makes you think yours is so much better? What makes you believe that what you have is so vastly superior to everyone else's?

I haven't made this claim.

Your branch contains no grappling, mine does, and its theory is consistent with a method that incorporates grappling. Why would I chose to give up something I know works for my purposes? To give it all up and follow a system (that I've actually tried), a system that contradicts my beliefs and understanding of what the art was actually meant for, and limits my ability to do what I am naturally inclined to do. My Wing Chun is a great transition/bridge from Boxing to Grappling, that is what I use it for. VT (WSLVT or PBVT) cannot offer this.

No one has asked you to switch.

The argument here isn't about those issues, its about your insinuations that VT is superior to boxing based upon your opinion and personal belief. You have presented no evidence and are unwilling to do so. Until you do, there is nothing to discuss.

When the hell did I "insinuate" that?

[dlcox]

Such as?



I don't doubt that. Most Wing Chun is indeed useless.



And the face? Hi, Nobody Important.



Interpretation of theory doesn't matter, huh? That's what forms the entire basis of a fighting system, and it is vasty different between VT and TWC.



That's not what you said over on MartialTalk.



This argument has not been made.



"Actual fighting" means in sporting competition to you, right?

That's fine to say then. Exactly what you have been told.



Not biased and not opinion. It either has worked for people or it hasn't.

If you want evidence, you will have to get off the internet and go to it.



No one has said it is not "legitimate", provided it is properly adapted from ring to street.



You have refused to examine the evidence, is all. Why are you afraid to go try your hand?

Blah, Blah, Blah.... Anymore when you post something all I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher. Quit deflecting and trying to spin everything. Direct questions have been put to you and you still haven't answered. There is no evidence, I'm not drinking your Kool Aid until I know what is in it.

[LFJ]

Direct questions have been put to you and you still haven't answered. There is no evidence, I'm not drinking your Kool Aid until I know what is in it.

I've answered everything. The evidence is there for you to examine. You are apparently afraid to do so.

I'm not asking you or anyone to switch. I don't care what you do.

[guy b.]

And the face? Hi, Nobody Important

and also the same guy as Saul Goodman. interesting

[guy b.]

Who says no one here hasn't tried VT? I have, didn't see much of a difference TBH. It wasn't any better or worse than any other branch, its just specialized and I didn't care for that

You say it by your lack of knowledge (also you actually say it)

[dlcox]

You yourself, on MartialTalk, unless you have been to a VT school in the last couple months. Which one did you visit?

Not important, what's important is that I did. They were good people and I'm not going to slander them or allow you to do so to further your agenda.

No one has asked you to switch.

What are you asking then? I tried it, not my cup of tea. Don't see in it the claims you make or how it is so vastly different from other branches I've tried. I like the branch I settled in, for me it measures up, for others it might not. No big deal.

I personally think that a large part of the problem that plagues the Wing Chun world is that the majority of its practitioners spend too much time pontificating theory and convincing themselves that superior theoretical knowledge will propel them to victory should they ever have to defend themselves. They think they know it all until they take a hit on the chin, then it all goes out the window. That isn't an art issue, its a teacher one.

When the hell did I "insinuate" that?

With nearly every new conversation over the last few years. You constantly deride others and insult their lineages while building yours up. Why else do you think you are met with such resistance?