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Thread: Training

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    One thing is very interesting , WSL had only one offical fight and he lost in about 20 seconds, that is his proven fighting record . If put aside all "underground , secret fights' that all Yip Man's students had why WSL people think his fighting system is so great ?
    You say "official" and "proven", but the only source for this event that allegedly took place in 1957 is a book about Bruce Lee written 41 years after the event, and after WSL's death.

    There is no record of the event, much less any match results, to be found anywhere on the Chinese internet.

    Whereas, there are many unbiased eyewitness accounts, including from heads of other WC lineages, of WSL's many successful fights, most of which ended within three moves.

    However, all that said, unlike some hero-worshippers who want to claim he had an undefeated career, I am not at all worried that WSL lost a few fights in the early days. That's how he gained his experience. If someone has never faced tough competition, they can't really learn or improve much.

    Also, WSL didn't create the VT fighting system, and it is always the fighter who fights. The illustrious or legendary fighting prowesses of those who have gone before us don't improve our skills.

    Whether someone in our lineage won all fights, lost all fights, or won some and lost some, it is still up to us to train hard and fight hard. No one else is gonna be in there throwing punches for us.
    Last edited by LFJ; 04-23-2017 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    Yip Man, junkie and a gambler who passed down simplified and uncomplete Yuen Kai San system is genius behind the system? It may be perfect solution for the purpose to which it was designed but the question is , what is the purpose , because it is obviously not designed for fighting .
    Ignorant and arrogant. lol!

    On the other hand, you think this donut is a fighter and has some impressive hand skills?


  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    Yip Man, junkie and a gambler who passed down simplified and uncomplete Yuen Kai San system is genius behind the system? It may be perfect solution for the purpose to which it was designed but the question is , what is the purpose , because it is obviously not designed for fighting .
    That's strange because the people I have conversed with who have knowledge of YKS wing chun appear to have an incoherent understanding and are lacking the most basic strategic ideas present in YM VT. Why would that be?

    Maybe YM's simplification and lack of understanding spontaneously fixed the broken YKS understanding? I guess that was lucky for him.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    That's strange because the people I have conversed with who have knowledge of YKS wing chun appear to have an incoherent understanding and are lacking the most basic strategic ideas present in YM VT. Why would that be?
    By "incomplete" I guess he's referring to things like kam-na and throwing techniques YKS and his brother YCW learned from Fung Siu-ching, a former Taijiquan master.

    Those things are not part of YMVT, because YM didn't mix TJQ with VT.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    By "incomplete" I guess he's referring to things like kam-na and throwing techniques YKS and his brother YCW learned from Fung Siu-ching, a former Taijiquan master.

    Those things are not part of YMVT, because YM didn't mix TJQ with VT.
    The problem with this kind of completeness is that it substitutes quantity for quality. Having some substandard grappling is no substitute for the real VT base. Losing that is not worth all of the standing joint locks and other low %, impossible to integrate ideas that this kind of Mainland approach tends to revel in.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    The problem with this kind of completeness is that it substitutes quantity for quality. Having some substandard grappling is no substitute for the real VT base. Losing that is not worth all of the standing joint locks and other low %, impossible to integrate ideas that this kind of Mainland approach tends to revel in.
    FSC is said to have been an arresting officer who used his kam-na skills to take criminals in.
    He was an expert in TJQ before learning any WC. TJQ was his base and much of what he used and later taught.

    It is much easier to add WC striking elements to a TJQ base, than to add TJQ "softness", locking, and throwing to a WC base, which will cause fundamental contradictions.
    But YKS and YCW were already WC practitioners when they and a few others learned this stuff from FSC and added it into their WC.

    Fortunately, YMVT is a functional striking method because it is not mixed with conflicting strategies and tactics.

    If someone can make "Tai Chi Wing Chun" work, more power to them, but YMVT is not "incomplete" for not having mixed it in.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Ignorant and arrogant. lol!

    On the other hand, you think this donut is a fighter and has some impressive hand skills?

    Making negtive remarks on people's physical appearence is so low that is beyond words... it is sad that people like you still exist . Anyway , this donut won several major Judo cometitions in his younger days , he has proven cometition record, unkile all people from VT, who have "underground ,secrets fights and they never lost " and he was judo referee for years . He can fight , he is extremely strong , but he doesn't sell VT like crap about the best fighting system , he is teaching genuine , complete and probably the oldest WCK style to those few who are able to understand what treasure SCWC really is .Name:  17909327_10213416039301795_1676661547_n.jpg
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    You can see how this donut looked like when his was in his competeing days . Do you really expect that someone who is near his 60's can maintain the shape of the 20 yeas old. But you are aware of this ,just , you are mean and you want to offend others . But since you gave me an opportunity , let me tell you couple more things about my teacher . First , he is not only a teacher , he is a close frined ,and we were friends before I became his student . To put aside the fact he is the most knowledgable wck teacher today I respect him as a person before everything else . I have visited many "big names" , many shools ,all i could see is incomplete wck designed to keep students as long as possible and cult like worshiping of the teacher . Money hungry "grandmasters" whose only qualification for the job was coule of months spent in Yip Man's school , some of them are Yip Man's "relativs" those are very special ones . People there , they were buying a story and a feeling they belong to something important , that they do something exclusive but in reality they are just cheated . On the other hand , my teacher do not allows any kind of worshiping , he only accepts people whit who he can be open and have normal reationship , all his disciples are his friends as well , some closer than others , but still...friends. You Know ,every time when I go to HK , Wayne never allows me to pay anything , everytime we go to have a lunch or a dinner he insists to pay , because I came to visit him.It is a small thing , but says alot about the man . One more thing , I visited many schools and level of explainiation and level of knowledge was in 99,9 % of the cases limited by lack of education and lack of intellleigence , in most cases , both , because professional grandmasers are only that . For many people were and are OK with the level of k owldge they can get i the schools of their choice , but not for me . With Wayne it is a different case , we have same level of education ( I have masters's in economics , and he is an engeneer ) so he has no trouble to express him self and clearly explain all the fine points of the art ( which cannot be found in any other style ) . So there it is , unlike most , we are not a cult ,and Wayne is extremly good and honest person . Attacking him personally on the ground of his physical appearnce is something that normal person would never do .
    Last edited by zuti car; 04-24-2017 at 08:43 PM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    That's strange because the people I have conversed with who have knowledge of YKS wing chun appear to have an incoherent understanding and are lacking the most basic strategic ideas present in YM VT. Why would that be?

    Maybe YM's simplification and lack of understanding spontaneously fixed the broken YKS understanding? I guess that was lucky for him.
    I don't know who did you talk but YKS syle is complete and far more sophisticated than YM's style and has everything YM style has it ,on the other hand YM's style is missing a lot things that can be found in YKS and other mainland styles. Yip Man was a junkie who forgot a lot in the period of heavy opium abusing and later taught bits and pieces he could still remeber when opium fog was partialy lifted of his brain.Sadly people tend to think that is the highest form of WCK , but the truth is just the opposite.
    Last edited by zuti car; 04-24-2017 at 06:09 PM.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    FSC is said to have been an arresting officer who used his kam-na skills to take criminals in.
    He was an expert in TJQ before learning any WC. TJQ was his base and much of what he used and later taught.

    It is much easier to add WC striking elements to a TJQ base, than to add TJQ "softness", locking, and throwing to a WC base, which will cause fundamental contradictions.
    But YKS and YCW were already WC practitioners when they and a few others learned this stuff from FSC and added it into their WC.

    Fortunately, YMVT is a functional striking method because it is not mixed with conflicting strategies and tactics.

    If someone can make "Tai Chi Wing Chun" work, more power to them, but YMVT is not "incomplete" for not having mixed it in.
    When will you people stop putting down other styles and invetning this kind of stories . Lying will not make your style better , the saddest part is that you actually believe in your own lies .

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    won several major Judo cometitions in his younger days , he has proven cometition record, unkile all people from VT, who have "underground ,secrets fights and they never lost "
    Firstly, I don't make this claim, as I just made clear. So, you are arguing with yourself.

    Secondly, Judo competition doesn't allow punching, kicking, or striking of any kind.
    It has nothing to do with free fighting and is not comparable to street fighting at all.

    he was judo referee for years .
    Also irrelevant.

    He can fight
    Judo competition is not fighting.

    he is teaching genuine , complete and probably the oldest WCK style
    "Complete" in the same way YKS WC is complete, by incorporating elements of internal styles?

    Age of a style does not guarantee quality or even functionality, especially if untested.

    Money hungry "grandmasters" whose only qualification for the job was coule of months spent in Yip Man's school
    True in most cases, whereas, Wayne's qualification is having competed in Judo? Irrelevant to fighting and his WC skill.

    You Know ,every time when I go to HK , Wayne never allows me to pay anything , everytime we go to have a lunch or a dinner he insists to pay , because I came to visit him.It is a small thing , but says alot about the man .
    It only says that he's Chinese. That's their culture. Don't you live in Taiwan or something? Do you have any friends?

    Even best friends who go out to eat every week, year after year will still fight over the bill every time.
    You think a Chinese wouldn't feel ashamed to let a guest pay for their own meal? Face is the biggest thing to them.

    I visited many schools and level of explainiation and level of knowledge was in 99,9 % of the cases limited by lack of education and lack of intellleigence , in most cases , both , because professional grandmasers are only that .
    You have not visited every school, or even every lineage.

    Intelligence, yes, but education level doesn't make you a better fighter.
    Many teenagers do quite well before even finishing high school.
    I even know 5 year old girls who show better skills than Wayne.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    I don't know who did you talk but YKS syle is complete and far more sophisticated than YM's style
    Elements added from Taijiquan don't make it more "complete", and complexity doesn't make it more functional.

    and has everything YM style has it
    It differs entirely in strategic approach, development process, and has no similarity in tactics.

    They don't have anything non-superficial in common.

    ,on the other hand YM's style is missing a lot things that can be found in YKS and other mainland styles.
    Namely, things like kam-na and throwing techniques from Taijiquan that YKS and others learned from FSC.

    It is not "missing" if it wasn't meant to be there originally.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    When will you people stop putting down other styles
    Like you just did to the entire YM clan in a wall of text.

    and invetning this kind of stories . Lying will not make your style better , the saddest part is that you actually believe in your own lies .
    I did not invent the story of Fung Siu-ching, his Taijiquan background, and what types of things he taught to YKS, YCW, and others to add to the WC they had already learned.

    It's common knowledge among those who have bothered to look, but people think YMVT is "incomplete" because he didn't learn and incorporate these foreign elements that are fundamentally conflicting with the VT fighting method.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    When will you people stop putting down other styles and invetning this kind of stories
    Also, it's not a put down to point out history and where certain things came from, why they are there and not here.

    If someone can make it work, good for them, but YMVT functions best as intended and not tinkered with.
    Last edited by LFJ; 04-24-2017 at 10:08 PM.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post

    If someone can make it work, good for them, but YMVT functions best as intended and not tinkered with.
    Now , provide the proof vt works anywherebeside the heads of VT cult members, I mean somewhere in real life. A proof of a competition , street fight ...anything ?

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    Now , provide the proof vt works anywherebeside the heads of VT cult members, I mean somewhere in real life. A proof of a competition , street fight ...anything ?
    Walk into a school and try your hand. That's real life and nothing beats direct experience.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Walk into a school and try your hand. That's real life and nothing beats direct experience.
    Been there done that, nothing overly special.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Been there done that, nothing overly special.
    You told me you saw a particular branch of WSLVT, one that I have no knowledge or experience of to say is the same as what I do.

    Not that what I do is anything "overly special". Never said it was, but it is a functional system.

    If what you saw was functional, then there you go.

    If not, then I'd suggest travelling for some good VT. If not motivated to do that then, who cares?
    Last edited by Sihing73; 04-26-2017 at 08:43 AM.

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