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Thread: The ultimate instructional form video?

  1. #1
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    The ultimate instructional form video?

    Hey Team,

    So, what would make an instructional video for a Kung fu form perfect? What does it need, what features would you add? Now things are online there is no 2 hour restriction for DVD length and so many other new possibilities. What would make an instructional form good for you?

    It goes without saying people want to know the applications of techniques (bafflingly missing from many instructionals) but what else? How should applications be done, demonstrated after every technique or before? Or after every section? Or separate from the form perhaps at the end?

    Do people want techniques broken into individual drills as well as the form? Do you want the Chinese names?

    What features would you add if you were making it?

    Ok, I know I know, its no substitute for a real teacher, but honestly there are worse things you could do on the internet for an evening than to try to learn some kung fu. So if people can resist making this point, then I would really like to know what features an instructional video should have to make it significantly better than the current generation of instructionals.

    Thanks!
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Hey Team,

    So, what would make an instructional video for a Kung fu form perfect?
    Well everyone learns differently, but for me, the best videos follow this pattern:

    1. Show the form at normal speed from the front angle
    2. Show the form at normal speed from rear angle
    3. Break the form down into sections of say 5 or 6 movements, highlighting proper foot an hand positions
    4. Show piece of the form (1-3 movements) then show applications and alternate applications

    The problem with this method is the vid ends up being 2 hours long and that's a lot of storage space.

  3. #3
    Applications separate at end (my preference, anyway)

    Tips on getting the right body mechanics, basically describing/showing whatever isn't easy to see on a video.

    Slow runthrough (both for slow training and perhaps to highlight aspects of the movements) as well as full speed runthrough "with emotional content".

    Just a few ideas... kind of obvious I guess.

  4. #4
    Explain applications from different angles. Combine them for light sparring. Eventually show the entire form. Build it from the ground up.

  5. #5
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    Great,

    thanks for the ideas.

    Storage space is less an issue since stuff can be streamed now it could be 12 hours long even. Though I realise there is a limit to what people will watch.

    I was thinking after you learned the form you may want a slow walkthrough to follow along with.

    Applications inside sparring would be ideal but sometimes techniques are context sensitive and you don't want to force that situation to occur if you know what I mean? This is a difficulty. Strikes and guards are no problem, but qinna is difficult to show inside sparring. And of course techniques which target sensitive areas.

    Any ideas on how to show Qinna more realistically without it being really contrived?
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Great,

    Any ideas on how to show Qinna more realistically without it being really contrived?
    The same qinna should be achievable from multiple scenarios. So if a form has say "clearing a grab, trap, leg lock" that should also be able to be demonstrated if the opponent punches instead of grabs. It makes qinna more "live".

  7. #7
    The age of forms is over.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    The same qinna should be achievable from multiple scenarios. So if a form has say "clearing a grab, trap, leg lock" that should also be able to be demonstrated if the opponent punches instead of grabs. It makes qinna more "live".
    Right, I see what your getting at. Anything that requires a really specific situation to arise will likely not be useful. Show that it can be used in the general case.

    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    The age of forms is over.
    Be that as it may, for the few people who do enjoy form now is the best time, with recent cameras and streaming technology more can be learned from a distance than ever before and with mainland China being more open than ever all sorts of interesting styles are revealing themselves.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  9. #9
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    There are 3D videos of various Kung Fu styles made in Hong Kong city as a project of CMA database. So viewers can look at the moves from different angles. Features like slow motion, etc. are there.





    Regards,

    KC
    Hong Kong

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post


    Be that as it may, for the few people who do enjoy form now is the best time, with recent cameras and streaming technology more can be learned from a distance than ever before and with mainland China being more open than ever all sorts of interesting styles are revealing themselves.
    I am not being facetious bro the time for forms ended yesterday morning. the original Chinese mma pioneer has started challenging all the famous tv kung fu guys and knocked out a cctv documentary tai chi guy yesterday. basically what the gracies did in the 90s is happening now in china.


    the only thing id pay money myself for is prolly shaolin die da formulas. and maybe those wacky exercises from 72 arts book. or super secret qigong. I don't think the average hobbyist cares that much about exact form details, they can juust youtube it
    Last edited by bawang; 04-28-2017 at 11:05 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    I am not being facetious bro the time for forms ended yesterday morning. the original Chinese mma pioneer has started challenging all the famous tv kung fu guys and knocked out a cctv documentary tai chi guy yesterday. basically what the gracies did in the 90s is happening now in china.


    the only thing id pay money myself for is prolly shaolin die da formulas. and maybe those wacky exercises from 72 arts book. or super secret qigong. I don't think the average hobbyist cares that much about exact form details, they can juust youtube it
    haha, really? That sounds pretty funny I'll check it out.

    Thing is they can't just youtube it because most of the stuff is not on youtube, most has never been filmed. But also the stuff that is on youtube is generally low quality. Even where there are good masters they have been given only 45 minutes by the people who make the DVDs and can't really communicate the form with detail in that time.

    I seem to remember there was a book of Shaolin medicine that contained a lot of formulas, (chinese of course) but I don't have it to hand, if I come across it again I'll post about it.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  12. #12
    actually rendahai it would be nice if u can give me a shaolin formula. i moved from Canada to usa and couldn't bring mine with me and the guy that made it for me closed his store. ill try to bum a formula from kisu

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  13. #13
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    If you're actually serious about this, I'd go with something along the lines of these guys here.

    https://martialskilluniversity.com/

    FYI, mooyingmantis gave some of their dvd series pretty good reviews. I've looked a just a small bit of the online university, stuff I already know to make a judgement, and its pretty good production. I would not charge as much as they do. You could argue 2 vids/week at $8/each ($64/month) is still less than going to an actual school, but I paid $45/month for 2 hours, 4 days a week at my old MMA gym. I would also go more into applications and drills. They do this as stand alone vids. I would treat it like a class in a gym. Teach 2-3 techniques, show a drill or two for each technique, then show how to utilize it in sparring (to include appropriate footwork, set-ups, combinations, etc.; basically, anything you'd get in a MMA class). Then choose a suitable way to organize the vids; whether its by source form, concept (more preferable I think), whatever. Every video you produce should be doing as much as possible to emphasize interactive training. The biggest risk to an honestly interested online student is falling into a view that solo training is going to be productive. And you owe it to them to make sure they are hammered with it that this is not the case, and that the interactive training (esp. sparring) is going the be the thing that must be the corrective function in the absence of a teacher.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    If you're actually serious about this, I'd go with something along the lines of these guys here.

    https://martialskilluniversity.com/
    Hey Soco, cheers for that, yeah I have seen their stuff before. They are a bit more ambitious. I don't so much want to do a whole online training school, but rather some videos for people who already train and want a little extra stuff on top. I am going to offer videos on basic training for free on my channel but then charge for videos for forms or specific skill sets. Selling them on Youtube directly or on Vimeo. It will be a bit like the current kung fu DVDs you get in China just more detail. Maybe 6 hours in stead of 1.5... Also Because of the streaming/ download format I can split things into individual lesson videos, i.e section 1 of form movement, section 1 application, section 1 drilling, section 2 etc.

    But I want to find some new ways to present stuff so people can learn as much as possible as they can alone.

    So really I want to make the VCD that I always wanted to buy but could never find. Most of the time I watched VCDs it was never to learn the form but to familiarise myself with the style, more out of interest. But I was always most interested when they explained the application, and the principle because these things gave me a new angle on the stuff I already knew, and new things to try out in training.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    actually rendahai it would be nice if u can give me a shaolin formula. i moved from Canada to usa and couldn't bring mine with me and the guy that made it for me closed his store. ill try to bum a formula from kisu
    I think the skill is in the preparation, really need to find someone to do it. There are lots of recipes but I don't think they are too much use on their own.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

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