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Thread: Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

  1. #151
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    just saw this video a few days ago about this story, and while I get his point, it's pointless still.
    All arts have a place. Wushu performers dont compete in the UFC. Thats my first perspective.
    Secondly, I respect the zeal to expose fakes, however, do REAL martial artists an MMA fighters need this?
    it seems like he wants to write out traditional martial arts for his own personal reason.
    Im all for knocking down mc-dojos, and fakejutsu, uber quan , zen kung karate kwoons, "chi kung magicians" etc.....
    however, Im always skeptical of ANYTHING western, AGGRESSIVELY trying to supersede what came "before" it. For example, he hasn't challenged a real master of any art. To correlate, no REAL master takes him seriously.
    Third, its proven Qi Gong is beneficial outside of fighting. So leave it alone at that, why go pick on a dude who says he fights with his Qi Gong? let him talk his talk, lol
    Thats like the Gracies going to prove BJJ will crush all WWE wrestlers because they "talk so tough" .....like cmon....Martial Arts is a personal journey, its not about debunking someones claim, business, or journey.

    Fourth, and most important, Traditional Arts have spiritual links, and meditative purpose beyond the MMA ring, so in that respect his whole argument is irrelevant to a pure practitioner. If someone is looking to gain money from lying, I get it to expose the fraud to the ignorant, thats just plain justice, and doesnt require him blazing a special trail agains the people who shoot kamehameha waves at chikung seminars for coins. Most these guys are easy to spot. In the spirit of Buddhism, everything he's saying is irrelevant, or Daoism for that matter, at any phase of your training , its always alchemy, and there is always a stronger warrior because the arts are older than us. He has not challenged a fighter from Shaolin, who is a high caliber master, and there are several who are easy to reach out to for someone like him. Funny thing is, you never hear Muay Thai fighter riding to Shaolin to prove kickboxing dominance. Muay Thai is traditional. He can challenge Cung Le, Buakaw, lol.....or if he wants to pick on peaceful "traditional martial artist" you have Shi Yan Lei, Shi Yang Ming, who are in enough a spot light for him , they might spar with him? smh.....I want to know who he's trying to reach out to an challenge, bc if he isnt trying and getting turned down by real fighters and masters, hes full of it.

    So, while I respect his courage, and I understand the plight of the honest realist, he still comes off as attention seeking. Why use fake masters as your claim to fame? If your art is strong, get your ass in the octagon and show and prove where it counts. If you want to see if traditional kung fu is valid to day, go find the BEST challenger who represents traditional kungfu. other than that, gtfo trying to "box" fake wing chun masters and "prove" to the world something obvious, that fake martial artist cant fight. then makes himself a big crybaby? complaining about being banned? well the performers feel bullied lol hahahhaha
    I want to know who hurt is feelings? why he takes this path....because he has decent potential as a MMA fighter if thats what he wants to be, he doesnt have to beat fakes to prove himself.... And if its not for being hurt, then is he really just out for clout and using weak people to get it?

    Either way, live and let live. humility humbles the ego, and humility might be expressed or perceived from anything/where/place/person. You cannot use your ego to humble some one, let their own journey do that.

    So as student of life, wether you are Buddhist, Daoist, or martial artist of another faith, or self faith , whatever, you always have to examine the root of things, the origin, the silence things come from, because it all has a purpose. When I look at what MMA needs, and traditional arts needs, in my opinion, he serves no purpose. For himself, what purpose he serves is up to him, based on what he thinks/feels he needs. I just have never met warriors who cared what other warrior say about themselves or their craft UNLESS they were challenging them.

    anyhow, going to do a pre work session now in celebration of honesty with self

    Amituofo

  2. #152
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    Amituofo ..

    lets see him challenge a real traditional fighter like Shifu Shi Yan Lei, who trained to fight as well as the traditional forms equally, QiGong in all in between included.
    Because giving this dude xuxiaodong airtime is disrespectful lol, not only to the Chinese Martial Arts community, and China in general, he is disrespectful to ALL Martial Arts, just as much as the fakes he's calling out, if not more of disgrace because he claiming Martial Arts, and pretty much bullying weak fakes with poor kickboxing technique. xu xiao dong is no genius fight technician in no way shape or form, he is not a tactician, hes not even in that good of shape. He has no spiritual or moral compass that he could apply to his life to get him a better exposure and better results for his efforts.
    Gene, of all the trolls in the history of Martial Arts, from dojos, to forums, to espn lol the Xu xiao dong is the worst. He is just a troll, and I didnt realize it till I saw a video of him beating an old self proclaimed master who just lost a fight to a chinese TKD competitor ......so Xu Xiao thinks its a good move to prove his point against this dude who already shows he has no skill lol, and ends up destroying the poor guy, I couldnt finish watching it man. And the look on Xu Xiaodongs face was disgusting.
    so Im sharing this perspective, just now from Shi Yan Lei, I was going to make a new thread, I'll just post it here. Yan Lei makes great points here for ANY martial artist.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuCypSpyz2w


    PS: if they fought, (which we would never be granted such a great event lol) still I'd bet on Yan Lei, even with out giving him the "preparation time" he humbly said he'd need before entering the ring or cage (BC HE RESPECTS NOT JUST THE PLATFORM, ALSO THE FIGHTERS WHO USE IT AND THE WORK THEY PUT IN)
    Much Love and Respect to all Martial Artist here and world wide, we keep each other going, and we keep the Arts Alive.

    Amituofo
    Last edited by Djuan; 05-30-2019 at 06:54 AM.

  3. #153
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    The people Xu Xiaodong is bashing are charlatans at worse, or deluded idiots at best - regardless of their age, physical condition or lack of ability. We should be asking ourselves why we have so many of these people in ‘TCMA’ in the first place, instead of taking offence at his actions.

  4. #154
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    B.Tunks - there are fakes in every industry

    Fake preachers, fake politicians, fake professors, fakes everywhere. When this becomes annoying is the generalization. Just because some are bad, it doesn't mean they are all bad. What offends me is not so much what Xu is doing - it's how it is being reported. Take the Tian Ye fight. Whether or not he had any skills whatsoever, Tian Ye took a lot of money to take a fall. The news reported it, but the focus was 'fake Kung Fu'.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    $434,340 is enough for a lot of people to humiliate themselves...
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  5. #155
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    Something I find interesting about this whole thing is how the Chinese government is now defending "traditional" CMA. Back during the Cultural Revolution, TCMA and its teachers/practitioners were seen as promoting superstitious beliefs, etc., by the gov't.

    I can definitely see where Xu Xiaodong is coming from. When he first came out and said why he was doing it, I was actually on his side. But like Gene says, ALL TCMA are being painted with the same brush. Meaning, all "kung fu masters" and practitioners are being labeled as fakes and frauds. Whether by Xu or by the many MMA nut riders who either follow him or merely read about it in MMA news stories. Meaning that unless you train MMA or its constituent methods of boxing, wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai, you're a fraud. Whether that's Xu's intention or not, I don't know.

    Also, Xu himself is what, 40? There's not much future for him in actual MMA fighting, is there? The easiest thing for him to do to win fights and promote himself is to expose CMA frauds; or if not fraudulent, at least smaller, old(er) men who were never fighters to begin with. If not for these challenges, I doubt very many people would have even heard of him.

  6. #156
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    Xu v. Xiaowang

    Where Xu crosses the line for me is with GM Chen Xiaowang. I've met GM Chen on several occasions and he exemplifies what a Grandmaster should be. His skill and wisdom are incomparable. It annoys me that some of the articles put 'grandmaster' in quotes in their headlines. GM Chen deserves better. This kind of disrespect is uncalled for.

    Now could Xu defeat Chen in a ring match? Probably. However Chen is 73. Xu is 41. We'll have to wait until 2051 to see if Xu ages as well as GM Chen.



    Chinese crusader against ‘fake’ kung fu meets his worst enemy yet
    Photo: Handout
    by Chauncey Jung and Qin Chen

    In a boxing ring in northwestern China last month, controversial mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong found himself up against a kung fu master who professed the ability to paralyze an opponent with the jab of his finger.

    This mystical technique is sometimes called the “death touch.” But on May 18, touch was probably the last thing the kung fu master Lu Gang wanted.

    Xu landed punch after punch to his face. Forty seconds and one broken nose later, the fight was over.



    Over the past two years, 41-year-old Xu has made headlines for winning bouts against self-proclaimed masters of kung fu, or Chinese martial arts, in unusually high-profile matches.

    His challenge to old-school kung fu masters has been interpreted in China as an act of defiance against traditional martial arts.

    By taking on what he calls “fake” maestros, Xu has angered powerful figures in the Chinese martial arts community and thrown into doubt the reputation of a prized tradition dear to officialdom eager to promote Chinese culture.

    Most recently, he’s gotten into further legal trouble. Last year, Xu had been sued for defamation by a tai chi master whom Xu had accused of faking a win against a strength athlete in a televised match.

    Xu lost the case, and was ordered to pay 416,000 yuan ($60,200) and publicly apologize on state newspapers, news websites and his own social media accounts.

    Xu paid the fine but did not apologize for five months. As a result, in April, a court banned him from flying and booking premium hotels, a punishment meant to foster trust in society under China’s social credit system.


    Chen Xiaowang (right), a tai chi master, sued Xu for defamation and won. Photo: SCMP/Tom Wang and chengxiaowang.com

    The authorities have also banned him from self-promotion and ordered him to cover up his identity if he chooses to live-stream his fights.

    That’s why when he took on the “death touch” master Lu Gang last month in Xinjiang, Xu adopted the alias Xu Donggua – literally “Winter Melon Xu” – and painted his face blue. But such is his level of fame, or notoriety, that his identity was clear to all.

    But Chuanwang Zhou, a martial arts coach teaching Chinese kung fu in the US, said Xu and kung fu practitioners do not belong in the same ring.

    “Martial arts is about developing a sense of honor and justice, character and spirit,” Zhou told Inkstone.

    “Xu should go fight with other MMA fighters, not Chinese kung fu masters.”

    Xu is clearly not listening. He first made a name for himself two years ago, when he knocked down a tai chi traditional practitioner in just 20 seconds. This prompted the state-run Chinese Wushu Association to issue a statement against the fight.

    Citing the health benefits of practicing martial arts, which include self-defense and character building, the group said Xu’s fight was against wude, or the spirit of kung fu, and potentially illegal. It called on Chinese authorities to curb future fights.

    A few days later, Xu’s account on China’s Twitter-like Weibo was suspended. The next month, his match with another tai chi master was interrupted by police in Shanghai, who arrested Xu for fighting without authorization, according to local media reports.

    To evade growing censorship, Xu has tried to set up new social media accounts whenever his old ones were shut down. Footage of his fights is widely shared on YouTube, which is blocked in China.

    To his fans, Xu’s fights amount to an overdue exposé of paper tigers and the weaknesses of kung fu in modern competitive fighting. But to his many detractors, he should continue to be punished for insulting kungfu, a source of national pride.



    CHAUNCEY JUNG
    Chauncey is a contributor to Inkstone. He is a China internet specialist who has previously worked for various Chinese internet companies in Beijing.

    QIN CHEN
    Qin is a multimedia producer at Inkstone. Most recently, she was a senior video producer for The New Yorker’s video team. Prior to that she was at CNBC, making short documentaries and writing about how technology shapes lives.
    Gene Ching
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Fake preachers, fake politicians, fake professors, fakes everywhere. When this becomes annoying is the generalization. Just because some are bad, it doesn't mean they are all bad. What offends me is not so much what Xu is doing - it's how it is being reported. Take the Tian Ye fight. Whether or not he had any skills whatsoever, Tian Ye took a lot of money to take a fall. The news reported it, but the focus was 'fake Kung Fu'.
    I agree about how it's being reported.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Something I find interesting about this whole thing is how the Chinese government is now defending "traditional" CMA. Back during the Cultural Revolution, TCMA and its teachers/practitioners were seen as promoting superstitious beliefs, etc., by the gov't.

    I can definitely see where Xu Xiaodong is coming from. When he first came out and said why he was doing it, I was actually on his side. But like Gene says, ALL TCMA are being painted with the same brush. Meaning, all "kung fu masters" and practitioners are being labeled as fakes and frauds. Whether by Xu or by the many MMA nut riders who either follow him or merely read about it in MMA news stories. Meaning that unless you train MMA or its constituent methods of boxing, wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai, you're a fraud. Whether that's Xu's intention or not, I don't know.

    Also, Xu himself is what, 40? There's not much future for him in actual MMA fighting, is there? The easiest thing for him to do to win fights and promote himself is to expose CMA frauds; or if not fraudulent, at least smaller, old(er) men who were never fighters to begin with. If not for these challenges, I doubt very many people would have even heard of him.
    There's not much future in MMA for him (in fact unless he gets out of China, not much history for him in anything), however he has a long history in Chinese MMA and can be considered one of the first wave.

  9. #159
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    Ding Hao should give it a rest

    I just copied some posts from our Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu to a new thread - Wing Chun 'Master' Ding Hao - because the ol' WC subforum needs some luv...

    Wing chun ‘master’ Ding Hao challenges Xu Xiaodong to rematch – ‘he is afraid of my punches’
    ‘You’re lucky I didn’t KO you last time,’ says Ding Hao, who was obliterated in minutes by the Chinese MMA fighter a year ago
    Ding also wants to fight one-armed boxer who delivered humiliating defeat to his ‘injured’ coach
    Nicolas Atkin
    Published: 3:07pm, 28 May, 2019


    Xu Xiaodong squares off with wing chun ‘master’ Ding Hao in 2018. Photo: YouTube

    Those of you who have been following Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong’s mission to expose “fake kung fu” over the last couple of years may remember one of the beat downs he administered in particular.
    In 2018, “Mad Dog” smashed Ding Hao – who bills himself as one of the “four great wing chun masters in China” – in a fight that went viral on Chinese social media.
    It was an emphatic defeat for Ding, but now he has called out Xu for a rematch.
    “Xu Xiaodong, do you still remember my fist?” he said in a video translated by Fight Commentary Breakdowns. “You’re lucky I didn’t KO you last time.”



    “I’m going to defeat you publicly and KO you,” he added. “If you’re afraid of failure, then admit defeat.”
    Ding seems to remember things a bit differently from reality. He was spared an immediate humiliation by the Sanshou rule set used for the fight, which barred Xu from delivering ground and pound when he knocked him down. But the referee waived it off the fourth time Ding was planted on his backside.
    continued next post
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  10. #160
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    Continued from previous post




    Still, that hasn’t stopped his bravado in challenging the 41-year-old Xu, who runs an MMA gym in Beijing and is on a mission to expose traditional martial arts “frauds”.
    “Don’t send your students. You didn’t teach any of them,” Ding said. “You recruited them from competitions.”
    “Xu, if you are a man, accept my rematch. Don’t lose to my punches again and say I sucker punched [you].”


    Xiong Chengcheng punches wing chun master Yu Changhua. Photo: YouTube
    continued next post
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  11. #161
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    Continued from previous post

    Ding also called out one-armed Chinese boxer Xiong Chengcheng, who humiliated his shifu (coach) Yu Changhu – an Ip Man lineage wing chun master – at the same event in 2018.
    “Xiong Chengcheng, you’re a wing chun failure,” Ding said. “You defeated my teacher because my teacher had an injury and the ref helped you.
    “Even Xu is afraid of my fast punches. It’ll be like hitting a kid, so hide.”
    Yu also made excuses for that fight, where he was dropped twice, giving an interview to Chinese media claiming the fight was rigged and that he wasn’t provided with enough lunch before the 8pm fight.
    “We finished the food, we asked the server, ‘Is there any more?’ They said no, just this. We said, ‘OK, can you give us some rice at least?’ We didn’t feel full.”
    Yu said that Ding has a really big appetite and eats three bows of rice. “You have to have entrees,” Yu added. “You can’t just give us soup, it’s not enough.”



    Yu said after they finished eating, they had to go to the supermarket to buy snacks because they weren’t full.
    “I can’t say that it didn’t have an effect,” he said. “We didn’t eat the crackers we bought. I think I ate one chocolate.”
    Wait...a one-armed Xiong beat his master Yu? Did we miss that story?
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Wait...a one-armed Xiong beat his master Yu? Did we miss that story?
    Gene, not necessarily one-armed, but more like he held one arm behind his back. Check out the last photo in your previous post with the bald guy punching the guy in red.

  13. #163
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    Not Jimmy Wang Yu then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Gene, not necessarily one-armed, but more like he held one arm behind his back. Check out the last photo in your previous post with the bald guy punching the guy in red.
    nevertheless...
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    nevertheless...
    Yeah...it actually makes it even more humiliating.

    These kung fu guys have gotta stop it. The majority of the best TCMA people I've known already had considerable non-TCMA backgrounds and experience beforehand. Whether it was judo, karate, boxing, kickboxing, TKD, MT, wrestling, or any combination of those. It pays to have had plenty of sparring and/or fighting/competitive experience against people from outside of your school, and/or style/system, if you're intending to represent it. This strongly affects one's mindset, what is emphasized and how one is trained. If all someone does is 'play hands' within their own school, demonstrate fa Jing, and awe compliant students with applications, that won't cut it against someone whose entire focus is on fighting and whatever conditioning will enhance that. Simply 'playing hands' harder won't help. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    The fact is, technically, many TCMA concepts are brilliant. The concepts in the arts themselves are in NO WAY inferior to non-TCMA, but many practitioners simply haven't evolved with the times. Boxers no longer train like John L. Sullivan, who would have gotten his ears boxed off against any modern pro boxer. Practitioners from some TCMA styles, such as CLF, have competed successfully in the ring in interstyle competitions, but those individuals were actual FIGHTERS and they were prepared for the ring. They had a foundational base to work from. Of course there is more to MA than fighting; but if you're going to fight, then you must train and gain experience like a fighter, regardless of your style or system, TCMA or non-TCMA. Otherwise you're a turtle being thrown into the shark tank.

    Nothing I've said here is original or unique, but it seems lost on so many of these kung fu guys making or accepting challenges. It's not whether someone wins or loses in competition, it's how one fights. Then even when a TCMA practitioner does fight effectively in the ring, there are always those detractors who say he doesn't look like the style at all, when in most instances all one needs to do is look a bit more closely. Yes, things do need to be adapted for in-ring competition; that doesn't mean it's always entirely absent. Sometimes it might be, but that's another story...

    Just my .02.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 06-13-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  15. #165
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    booyah!!



    ..... maybe you, Xu Xiaodong, are rubbish!! .......lets see Xiaodumb challenge Shi Yan Lei
    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

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