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Thread: Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

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    Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

    Chinese MMA fighter Xu Yao Dong issued an open challenge, claming Chinese martial arts is full of phoneys, particularly Taiji. A guy from Chengdu, Lei Lei, founder of Lei Gong Taiji, took up the challenge..... the result is... well....


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhFdjiPe6w

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    Aye Carumba. Thank you for sharing this. Thank God for sparring lessons, hands up in practical fighting stance, etc.

    The Tai Chi guy just tried to deflect with his arms. Won't work.

    I enjoyed watching some of Shifu Onassis Parungao's old fight videos a whole lot better. A more practical way to make the traditional style work.

    For instance... (I guess I am analyzing the fight video here) why didn't the Tai Chi guy try to deflect with a groin kick/ over-head smash? Those apps/techniques are in the Tai Chi forms. Instead the tai Chi guy acts like he is playing push hands games when he is squared up against an opponent in a fight. That seems like it is an amateur mistake. An important lesson I learned from my Longfist teachers was, that push hands does not equate to sparring. Push hands is a good skill to have, it can be employed in sparring if necessary, but it is like any other technique or skill.

    I think I have heard people say this here before: more assertive, less defensive. Strict Tai Chi guys with little to no sparring or fighting experience seem to be more defensive. Than they get knocked out and that golden opportunity never comes to land that golden technique that you know oh-so-well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanghai-mantis View Post
    Lei Lei, founder of Lei Gong Taiji, took up the challenge....
    So, fake Taiji and delusions of grandeur?

    Even so, the MMA guy went 0 for 6 standing punches.

    Didn't land anything until the guy was run down and he was finally able to land some punches on the ground. Great.

  4. #4
    The biggest mistake I see from the get go is, the Tai Chi practitioner, who was moving back a lot while squaring off, never really engaged the MMA guy who was entering with a lot of forward pressure...which is what a good fighter or someone intent on hurting you will do. When the engagement took place Tai Chi was retreating with no "root" to stand on. Had Tai Chi rooted and entered close enough to suppress the legs then took care of MMA's hands, he could have struck and/or taken MMA down. Instead MMA just bulldozed Tai Chi to the ground like a rock slide.

    Ouch! That will leave a mark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    So, fake Taiji and delusions of grandeur?

    Even so, the MMA guy went 0 for 6 standing punches.

    Didn't land anything until the guy was run down and he was finally able to land some punches on the ground. Great.
    Off you go, offer to show the mma guy what real life fun can do...

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertdreeben View Post
    The biggest mistake I see from the get go is, the Tai Chi practitioner, who was moving back a lot while squaring off, never really engaged the MMA guy who was entering with a lot of forward pressure...which is what a good fighter or someone intent on hurting you will do. When the engagement took place Tai Chi was retreating with no "root" to stand on. Had Tai Chi rooted and entered close enough to suppress the legs then took care of MMA's hands, he could have struck and/or taken MMA down. Instead MMA just bulldozed Tai Chi to the ground like a rock slide.

    Ouch! That will leave a mark.
    The mistake was thinking he could fight without any sparring practise, the big mistake was thinking forms and push hands practise equals being able to fight

  7. #7
    this has never happened in china before, traditional gongfu guys were never called out. nobody in china heard of the 90s ufc or cares. this is a shock because the two guys are big names in china. the sky might fall down on the traditional Chinese gongfu industry.
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    So, fake Taiji and delusions of grandeur?

    Even so, the MMA guy went 0 for 6 standing punches.

    Didn't land anything until the guy was run down and he was finally able to land some punches on the ground. Great.
    the guy is the fonder of Chinese mma. he brought mma to china in 2001. he is the shi deyang of mma. getting ko by him is a great honor.
    Last edited by bawang; 04-30-2017 at 09:24 AM.

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    If the Taiji guy can move in circle, if his opponent has to move in straight and turn, his opponent won't be able to develop linear momentum that fast. Does Taiji have footwork? I have not seen one yet.

    I like the footwork in the following clip. If you can force your opponent to move with you, at least you can control the distance and angle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl77...ature=youtu.be
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-30-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    this has never happened in china before, traditional gongfu guys were never called out. nobody in china heard of the 90s ufc or cares. this is a shock because the two guys are big names in china. the sky might fall down on the traditional Chinese gongfu industry.


    the guy is the fonder of Chinese mma. he brought mma to china in 2001. he is the shi deyang of mma. getting ko by him is a great honor.
    hes also an actor too isnt he? ive got a feeling its him who starred alongside Yu Cheng Hui in Judge Archer

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    Heres some background to the Taiji guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprNKGHPrxA&t=0s

    The MMA guy has now issued an open challenge to any Taiji people. If you have Weibo, its quite entertaining to follow. Some Wudang "abbot" has accepted, as well as a Taiji guy called Wang Zhan Hai.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shanghai-mantis View Post
    Heres some background to the Taiji guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprNKGHPrxA&t=0s

    The MMA guy has now issued an open challenge to any Taiji people. If you have Weibo, its quite entertaining to follow. Some Wudang "abbot" has accepted, as well as a Taiji guy called Wang Zhan Hai.
    There is a whole lot of fantasy going on in the Chinese martial art world. first off any kung fu guy willing to fight a match[not friendly training] against a young MMA competitor should obviously be a young competitor himself. for example a Sanda fighter. That and in this day and age still to be completely unaware of a ground game it's unbelievable. If you still have no clue that these guys train hard and are very skilled fighters, specially in a competitive environment, than that right there proves your "cluelessness".

    This cluelessness goes above and beyond simple fighting in the Chinese arts. there are still people out there that believe you have to be of Asian decent to be a kung fu teacher/expert..... kung fu has been around what since the 70s in the states. it is ten times easier to find a good kung fu instructor in new York city than it is in most Chinese big cities. then there are those that think only Asians know the true secrets. I bet this tai chi guy thought he knew a bunch of secrets and played master on his students demoing little simple applications, like they are the end all be all of fighting. in my experience many of the Chinese teacher's have strong foundations and basics are very good, also are good at applying power, but usually lack real life fighting experience. where the western kung fu instructors grow up in a more hostile environment and have more fighting knowledge and experience.

    One more point on this cluelessness in fighting and reality topic. I believe this stems back to Chinese politics and social order. the communist government personally keeps people stupid. for example blocking social media, regulating tv programs and religion, strictly controlling what students learn in school. You can see this tai chi MASTER,is still pre ufc 1993 state of mind. the MMA guys on the other hand have outside influence, and are free thinkers because they train in a system that learned form systems with roots outside of china.
    Last edited by wiz cool c; 04-30-2017 at 07:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    this is a shock because the two guys are big names in china. the sky might fall down on the traditional Chinese gongfu industry.
    Really? Being a "big name" doesn't mean that guy's Tai Chi style was legit or representative of TCMA.

    I just read that Chen Village accepted the challenge, saying it only means something if the opponent is someone recommended by everyone.
    So, hopefully they give him someone good and we see something more interesting.

    the guy is the fonder of Chinese mma. he brought mma to china in 2001. he is the shi deyang of mma. getting ko by him is a great honor.
    Hmm... I haven't been able to find much about him on the Chinese internet.

    The only other video of him on Youtube is him shamelessly beating up some weak guy in his gym who's obviously no match for him.

    Kicks him in the face after he's already down on his hands and knees...
    But how many punches did that take and the guy didn't even hit the floor...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyTDCvVOQU

    Just seems like a loudmouth pr!ck trying to make some money/fame challenging what he perceives to be the weakest styles (Tai Chi).
    But now he's got more real martial artists stepping up, and he's getting scared. What if he loses??

    The only video of him actually facing a real opponent is from back in '03 against a Jiu-Jitsu guy, and he spends most of the match stuck under side mount, then gets caught in an arm bar and loses.

    http://www.tudou.com/listplay/p58S0h...CClAvwjac.html

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=LFJ;1302640] I just read that Chen Village accepted the challenge, saying it only means something if the opponent is someone recommended by everyone.
    So, hopefully they give him someone good and we see something more interesting.[QUOTE]

    that would be more reasonable, since they are used to resistance. they do a rugged type of push hands similar to sumo or Greco roman wrestling, heard they also practice sand as part of their training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    There is a whole lot of fantasy going on in the Chinese martial art world. first off any kung fu guy willing to fight a match[not friendly training] against a young MMA competitor should obviously be a young competitor himself. for example a Sanda fighter. That and in this day and age still to be completely unaware of a ground game it's unbelievable. If you still have no clue that these guys train hard and are very skilled fighters, specially in a competitive environment, than that right there proves your "cluelessness".

    This cluelessness goes above and beyond simple fighting in the Chinese arts. there are still people out there that believe you have to be of Asian decent to be a kung fu teacher/expert..... kung fu has been around what since the 70s in the states. it is ten times easier to find a good kung fu instructor in new York city than it is in most Chinese big cities. then there are those that think only Asians know the true secrets. I bet this tai chi guy thought he knew a bunch of secrets and played master on his students demoing little simple applications, like they are the end all be all of fighting. in my experience many of the Chinese teacher's have strong foundations and basics are very good, also are good at applying power, but usually lack real life fighting experience. where the western kung fu instructors grow up in a more hostile environment and have more fighting knowledge and experience.

    One more point on this cluelessness in fighting and reality topic. I believe this stems back to Chinese politics and social order. the communist government personally keeps people stupid. for example blocking social media, regulating tv programs and religion, strictly controlling what students learn in school. You can see this tai chi MASTER,is still pre ufc 1993 state of mind. the MMA guys on the other hand have outside influence, and are free thinkers because they train in a system that learned form systems with roots outside of china.

    To me it is all marketing bullsh*t like Mike Tyson in his prime against two Mike Tysons would look like the tai chi vs mma video lol.

    The conditioning of the master even if he had the moves of the mma guy he looked like he has a weak back compared to the mma guy like a twenty year old Tyson running doing leg work six hours a day would dummy a fat fifty year old current Tyson.

    A big thing between an eight year student of mma vs a kata student is the kung fu guy spends four years on staff and sword, etc which the fake kung fu hippy guys on youtube dont do like Mcdojo schools they never build the proper foundation and strength from weapons training and the good kung fu guys spend four years on kata basics with four years weapons foundation training while the Muay Thai guy does three years shadow boxing and four years cardio and sparring.

    Also I think before the days of pirates and guns lol good martial soldiers for hire would train weapons for ten years twelve hours a day before being employable nowadays people are lucky to train twice a week.
    Last edited by diego; 05-01-2017 at 05:36 AM.

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    been there, done that

    I posted this earlier on the Tai Chi winner in MMA. I thought about merging this but then decided that this discussion is lively enough here.
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