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Thread: Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    What kind of tools should be in a 100% Taiji guy's toolbox? Should roundhouse kick, single leg, ... be in that toolbox?
    I would imagine whatever tools in his art he can properly develop/train and incorporate into his fighting.

    How many MA of today look 100% like they did even 100-200 years ago? Even many new, modern MA like TKD are taught differently than they were 40-50 years ago. Nowadays there are MANY MAists such as karateka, kung fu people, etc., who throw Muay Thai-style round kicks who might never have actually trained in MT itself.

    I once saw a team of Wing Chun fighters in a competition who incorporated things like a side-facing stance, jabs, high roundhouse and hook kicks, etc., along with their WC handwork. AFAIK, those things are not considered WC, but they were making it work very well. They were effective with it. Many people might say that isn't WC. 'Should' they have incorporated those things? Since most of them were winning, I think the argument would be meaningless for them.

  2. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I would imagine whatever tools in his art he can properly develop/train and incorporate into his fighting.

    How many MA of today look 100% like they did even 100-200 years ago? Even many new, modern MA like TKD are taught differently than they were 40-50 years ago. Nowadays there are MANY MAists such as karateka, kung fu people, etc., who throw Muay Thai-style round kicks who might never have actually trained in MT itself.

    I once saw a team of Wing Chun fighters in a competition who incorporated things like a side-facing stance, jabs, high roundhouse and hook kicks, etc., along with their WC handwork. AFAIK, those things are not considered WC, but they were making it work very well. They were effective with it. Many people might say that isn't WC. 'Should' they have incorporated those things? Since most of them were winning, I think the argument would be meaningless for them.
    wing chun is made up by 2 guys on a boat, its fame outmatched its usefulness

    the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.

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  3. #108
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    Another one?

    It's like Spring Cleaning time.

    Farce of fury: Boxer KO's 'Wudang kung fu master' in 7 seconds flat

    Another video surfaces of a phony Chinese kung fu fighter getting beat down by a combat sport athlete

    By Keoni Everington,Taiwan News, Staff Writer
    2017/05/15 18:54


    Boxer decks "Wudang disciple" in 7 seconds. (Weibo image)

    TAIPEI (Taiwan News) -- Another fake kung fu fighter met his match when he was knocked out by a boxer within seven seconds on May 4, a few days after the infamous match between an MMA gym owner and self-professed "tai chi master."

    This time, another faux fighter, who claimed to be a disciple of the Wudang (武當) style of kung fu, is shown in a Weibo video being bounded to the turf like a rag doll in seven seconds by a boxer.

    In the grainy video titled "Wudang kung fu master fights for traditional martial arts at a fight club, but doesn't last for seven seconds," a man is see wearing a black kung fu uniform with white boxing gloves, while a bare-chested boxer can be seen with bright green boxing gloves. Not to leave viewers disappointed, the boxer quickly goes to work and punches the pseudo kung fu "master" to a pulp.

    The video is the latest in a series of videos showing purported "kung fu masters" taking on mixed martial artists and boxers. The previous being the clash between an MMA gym promoter Xu Xiao-dong (徐曉冬) and a massage therapist turned "tai chi master" Wei Lei (魏雷), which ended with the latter being punched into submission within ten seconds.

    Nothing is yet known of the current kung fu fighter to be clobbered on video, but the Taoist Wudang monasteries, which housed famous sword fighters going back many centuries, were ransacked during the cultural revolution from 1966-1976 and the resident monks and martial artists were banished from the area.

    After the cultural revolution, like most temples in China, the Wudang monasteries were converted into tourist attractions. Not much evidence exists of the return of the original practitioners of Wudang style after the cultural revolution.

    Thus it is difficult to ascertain the validity of the martial arts lineage of a person claiming to represent Wudang style kung fu in modern day China. If he did in fact train at Wudang, it is a tangible sign of the deplorable state of this once fierce fighting system.


    continued next post
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  4. #109
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    Continued from previous post

    Such style versus style videos provide little in the way of quantifiable data as to the effectiveness of a given fighting system since they are individual incidents. Below is a video showing an opposite outcome in which a Wing Chun kung fu fighter smashes a Muay Thai kick boxer into a mirror:

    That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About
    Wudang Kung Fu?
    Muay Thai Vs Wing Chun
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  5. #110
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    Hiding?

    MMA Fighter Xiaodong Xu goes into Hiding after Beating Tai Chi Master Wei Lei in 10 Seconds
    Vittorio Hernandez | May 13, 2017 12:58 AM EDT


    MMA Versus Tai Chi (Photo : Julian Burns-Brenssell/YouTube)

    In a match between a mixed martial arts expert and a Tai Chi master, who would win? The audience at a venue in Chengdu found out the result which had Chinese now questioning if Tai Chi really has a value when it comes to protecting a person.
    The match had MMA fighter, coach and promoter Xiaodong Xu battle Lei Wei, the Tai Chi master, Daily Star reported. It was actually a fight between a traditional and modern form of martial arts which was won by Xiaodong Xu in 10 seconds.

    10-Second Fight

    At the start, the two men were waiting who would make the first move. The Tai Chi master shows a defense form imitating a crane, while the MMA fighter held his hand in a classic low boxing style. When the two sparred, Xiaodong Xu unleashed multiple punches that caught Lei Wei off guard as he fell on the floor receiving punches. The referee ended the fight in 10 seconds.
    The video of the match become viral with more than 900,000 hits in one week. Following his victory, Xiaodong Xu mocked out forms of Chinese martial arts. Among those who responded to his dare are Kung Fu masters. He further mocked them on Sina Weibo by claiming he would win even if two or three Kung Fu fighters would spar with him.
    His claims angered the Chinese Wushu Association which issued a statement on its website that said the fight between Xiaodong Xu and Lei Wei “violated the morals of martial arts.” As a result, Chinese are now doubting the use of other forms of traditional martial arts.
    Exposing Fraudulence
    However, the MMA fighter who said he fought Lei Wei to fight fraudulence, has become the target. After he went into hiding, Xiaodong Xu said he lost everything, including his career.
    Since the 16th century, Tai Chi has been part of Chinese martial arts culture in which movies and TV dramas made martial artists great heroes in conflict due to their supernatural strength, BBC reported. It is this portrayal of Chinese martial arts – which Xiaodong Xu also studied – that the MMA fighter wanted to expose as full of fraud and hypocrisy that made him fight and beat Tai Chi

    "Ya running and ya running
    And ya running away.
    Ya running and ya running,
    But ya can't run away from yourself" ~Marley
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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    It's like Spring Cleaning time.

    continued next post
    Looks like there's finally a new trend out of Asia now to fill the void left by Gangnam Style... "Beat That (KF) Style."

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.
    This is the truth.

  8. #113
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    haaaaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Looks like there's finally a new trend out of Asia now to fill the void left by Gangnam Style... "Beat That (KF) Style."
    More like beat that dumb ass 'master' who can't see when he's totally outgunned.

    Maybe a challenger will walk into KFTC25 AF. That would make my weekend.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    wing chun is made up by 2 guys on a boat, its fame outmatched its usefulness

    the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.
    Indeed, gross motor skills and basics always override everything else in the stress of combat.
    The only way one can use "fine motor" skills or specialized techniques is when, and ONLY WHEN. they are actually trained in combat AND, preferably, against other systems.
    That is why a Thai boxer (basics and gross motor) do well against almost every other strikers ( typically) and WC guys ( highly specialized skill set) do well against other WC guys ( typically).
    Psalms 144:1
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    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #115
    I would draw the line between systems that train full contact and those that don't.

  11. #116
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    Winning and losing are illusions?

    Sometimes I read articles like this and all I can think is that the author needs a good kick to the head. This isn't what zen is about. So overthinking it.

    That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About meets Shaolin Monks and fighting ?

    The MMA fighter who beat up a tai-chi master didn’t win the fight

    Fight stylishly. (Reuters/Petr Josek)

    WRITTEN BY Ephrat Livni
    OBSESSION Life as Laboratory
    May 20, 2017

    The fighting monks of Shaolin Monastery in the Pagoda Forest on Song Mountain in China are globally adored. They’re real but have been made mythical in countless martial-arts movies and the Wu Tang Clan’s hip-hop.
    Now, their ancient arts are allegedly threatened by the new. The Shaolin fighting tradition, specifically tai-chi, just lost big time against mixed martial arts, or MMA, in a brisk showdown in China, a battle that was offensive to the government and others. The quick pummeling violated traditional codes of conduct, and the winner, Xu Xiaodong, has gone into hiding, so grave is the situation.


    This mind is the buddha. (el)
    The loss ostensibly also calls into question the relevance of the ancient art of the loser, Wei Lei, practitioner of the “thunder style” of tai chi.
    Any such claim may be shortsighted–with all due respect to the fast, loose, and furious MMA fighting style. After all, MMA is new. Shaolin’s Zen monks have been practicing for 1,500 years.
    Here’s a condensed look at the philosophy behind the fighting:

    Classic is as classic does

    Kung-fu flicks glorify battles and Shaolin monks are the only clerics in the world with street cred and pop-icon status. They’re unparalleled fighters, who perform amazing bodily feats, acrobatics that seem like magic.


    Legendary Zen master or myth? (el)

    Yet all this action is fueled by a practice obsessed with stillness, Zen Buddhism.
    The Shaolin tradition isn’t about throwing punches. It is a way of seeing the world and being in it, cultivating inner and outer strength.

    Pointing at the moon

    If you think winning is the whole game, you lose. In Zen terms—that would be like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself (giving yourself the finger, as it were).


    Centuries of simplicity. (el)

    This or that, good and bad, gain and loss, all are fine. Illumination is available to anyone in everyday life. It can come as soon as attachment and distinctions are shed, according to Zen tradition.
    Shedding can happen spontaneously or be cultivated with practice—or through both, by doing simple things, seeing clearly and operating beyond the limits of the visible world.
    That’s what the fighting monks of Shaolin work on from childhood, and what’s so admirable about them. Discipline. More than their fighting skills, it’s their will to excel through sustained effort, as ultimately evidenced by exceptional abilities.

    Granddaddy of all masters

    Boddhidharma is the Zen patriarch of the Shaolin monks, credited with creating kung fu, the martial art that spans a whole slew of fighting forms known as “wushu.” In his view, all experience is good practice, fertile ground for illumination.


    A collage of fact and fiction. (el/Internet Archive)

    According to legend, Boddhidharma brought his action-oriented, cryptic, rigorous Buddhism to China from India around 500 AD. He emphasized looking at nature for guidance—cranes, tigers, monkeys, bamboo, the moon and stars and weather. Boddhidharma’s Zen style didn’t take off for two centuries, according to scholars. But it remained fresh and lively.
    Rather than meditate on a cushion, he advised activity. Kung fu and tai chi are moving meditation practices, and Boddhidharma is revered by martial artists. He’s arguably the most famous monk ever, mythologized in international culture.
    Or he’s a fiction. Some scholars say Boddhidharma may not have existed at all.

    For all the tea in China

    More lore about the master: Boddhidharma is said also to have brought tea to China. He was so dedicated to Zen that he cut off his eyelids to stay awake during meditation and tea bushes grew where his eyelids fell, creating a national craze. So the story goes.


    If you think it’s about winning, you lose. (el)

    The tale may be a bit creepy but it’s also instructive. It lauds intensity, unyielding steadiness, determination in the face of boring but important things, like sitting. That’s what’s so sexy about Zen.
    The Shaolin allure comes from this quiet intensity, which distracted humans can’t help but admire. Who wouldn’t want to move so smoothly as to fly, win a fight moving the wind, having trained on waterfalls?
    The recent trouncing of tai chi doesn’t matter. As any Zen student knows, appearances are deceiving. The real skill of the master isn’t fighting or winning. That’s not what Boddhidharma taught. If he taught anything at all, it’s resilience, resolve, reserve.

    He wrote a practice guide that lays out two basic paths to mastery of the self. It’s called Outline of Practice, a short four-page primer for Zen students. It begins like this:



    The final blow

    The fight that has sparked such controversy in China doesn’t reflect the spirit of the ancient Shaolin temple and Boddhidharma, whether he was real or mythical. It isn’t Zen’s death knell by any stretch of the imagination. Zen’s about internal and external awareness, cultivating them until they’re one. That’s a classic skill, always useful, never goes out of style.


    It’s all in your mind not minding. (el)

    Masters practice to practice and fight if they have to. Winning is neither here nor there, and shouldn’t excite or dismay. That is what practice teaches, that admiration and admonition are equally problematic or awesome when we make them so. As a result of regular efforts, a student may sometimes win, and sometimes lose too. But a buddha manages anything.

    Winning and losing are illusions. The path is neutral. Mind makes things good or bad until we don’t mind. That’s the Zen treasure, a key to freedom that can’t be lost in a fight.
    Gene Ching
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  12. #117
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    We generally don't endorse challenges here but...

    Who says 'Tai Chi can't fight?' Read Tai Chi’s Nick Osipczak Answers Xu Xiaodong’s Defeat of Wei Lei by Andrew Judge
    Gene Ching
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Who says 'Tai Chi can't fight?' Read Tai Chi’s Nick Osipczak Answers Xu Xiaodong’s Defeat of Wei Lei by Andrew Judge
    Nick was a ufc fighter way before he every took up tai chi, claiming him as a tai chi fighter is like claiming max Chen as one

  14. #119
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    Shi Yanjue takes up the challenge

    One of our former contributors offered this translation on his website:
    Shaolin Monk Shi Yan Jue Formally Challenges Xu Xiaodong (of MMA)​
    Original Chinese Language Article By: http://news.china.com
    (Translated by Adrian Chan-Wyles PhD)


    Shi Yan Jue (释延觉) - Shaolin Monk Ordination Certificate No: 018 (13.11.1996)
    On the 3rd, May, 2017, (at 9pm in the evening), Shaolin monk – Shi Yan Jue (释延觉) – formally issued a ‘challenge’ on behalf of the Shaolin Temple - toward MMA-fighter Xu Xiaodong, on the grounds of his continuous and repeated ignorant and disrespectful behaviour toward traditional Chinese martial arts, with particular attention being drawn to the events surrounding the 20 second video uploaded onto the net by Xu (in late April) – purportedly showing a Taijiquan master being tripped over and repeatedly punch about the head (by Xu – who later claimed that through his actions, he had defeated ‘all’ traditional Chinese martial arts). Shi Yan Jue holds the position of ‘First Rank Dharma Protector’ (第一护法 – Di Er Hu Fa), and conveyed the challenge via the internet:

    ‘You dare to claim that you have challenged (and defeated) ALL traditional Chinese martial arts? You dare to claim that ALL traditional Chinese martial arts practitioners are liars? On what grounds do you make these claims? Mr Xu (徐), it is obvious that your attitudes and opinions are very naïve in the extreme, and are the product of a confused and disturbed mind. As this is the case, your inner turmoil interprets all things around you through a sense of despair, and your so-called ‘MMA’ technique has instilled in you the ability to despise all things. Despite your claims, you do not understand ‘real’ fighting, or the ‘true’ nature of traditional Chinese martial arts. MMA stresses an artificial fight limited by a set of contrived rules – whereas traditional Chinese martial arts are built upon a historical foundation of ‘fighting to the death’ – with no contrived rules being in operation. As this is the case, young Chinese people in China should be respectful of traditional Chinese martial arts, and hold their teachings with a sense of awe.

    As Mr Xu appears to carry-out much of his fighting with his mouth – I would consider it the most honoured of sacred duties to ‘correct’ this young man’s attitude, and ‘educate’ him during a martial contest. As I am disinterested in rules – Mr Xu may decide on what grounds this context should be fought – either with or without rules. If I should possess the good fortune to prevail, then I request the Mr Xu permanently retires from public view (making no further statements) after first apologising for his disrespectful behaviour, and confirming his respect for the efficacy of traditional Chinese martial arts. As Mr Xu is motivated by money, if I lost, then half any money raised by others on my behalf would be donated to charity (with the other half given to Mr Xu). Listen to and respect this ‘challenge’, issued by the 34th Generation Shaolin Monk and ‘First Rank Dharma Protector of the Shaolin Temple (at Henan).’

    Shi Yan Jue (释延觉)

    (要挑战整个武林?传统武术全是骗子?这样的言论还是说明徐先生太幼稚了,藐视一切不太好,你也是mma选 手,想你也清楚什么是真正的格斗,不是那几拳几脚的竞技,真正的无限制规则是要死人的,年轻人对中国武术应 该心存敬畏之心。看到徐先生的嘴和拳头都挺硬的,想和徐先生较量一下,规则自选,公开平台,我赢了,徐先生 承诺以后退出武术圈,不从事任何武术相关工作,不发表任何武术相关言论,百万奖金一半捐助。我输了,随你要 求。少林寺第一护法,三十四代武僧——释延觉。)

    That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About meets Shaolin Monks and fighting ?
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  15. #120
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    The story goes on

    Mixed martial arts vs tai chi group brawl stopped by police in Shanghai but battle rages on online
    Planned event likely sought to end the argument between supporters of the two combat styles, which has been bubbling over since MMA fighter defeated tai chi master in April
    PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 27 June, 2017, 2:40pm
    UPDATED : Tuesday, 27 June, 2017, 2:49pm



    Sarah Zheng
    http://twitter.com/_szheng
    sarah.zheng@scmp.com

    Police in Shanghai on Monday closed down an unlicensed fight between two teams – one led by a tai chi master and the other by a leading mixed martial artist – just weeks after footage of a similar, very bloody, contest went viral online.



    The event, dubbed a “group brawl”, was set to pitch four MMA fighters, led by Xu Xiaodong, against four tai chi experts led by Ma Baoguo, Guangzhou Daily reported.
    The planned fight came just weeks after Xu, a fighter and promoter of mixed martial arts, doled out a severe beating to another tai chi master, Wei Lei, in a bout that lasted just 10 seconds. Many commentators described the fight as a clear victory for modern combat techniques over traditional styles.
    Monday’s bout, however, failed to get underway after police raided the venue, the report said.
    Footage of the incident posted on YouTube shows the would-be combatants preparing for the bout in front of a crowd of spectators, before the lights go out and police come in.

    continued next post
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