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Thread: Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    CA, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by B.Tunks View Post

    Verifiable, meaning historically verifiable (and when I say that, I mean by rigorous Western standards). If you think folk history is devoid of political agenda then we live on completely different planets.

    I think you may be reading me wrong - there definitely were organized systems prior to Qing. E.g. the Ming was the greatest period of proliferation. Also, of course I agree that the skills of sanda are rooted in TCMA. Its the methodology of sanda that produces superior fighters.

    I won't go on about it as your mind seems firmly made up, but if XXD is an unskilled, impatient and unintelligent fighter, relying entirely on brute force etc, then his victories should be even more embarrassing for 'TCMA' - though it should be said that he hasn't actually set out to discredit all TCMA. In fact has previously indicated respect for a number of styles. If you can take the time to listen to his many long rants you may get a better picture of where he's coming from.

    I'll cheer too when and if he gets beaten fair and square (though I wont hold my breath waiting). In the meantime, I have to respect what he's doing - particularly as he's placed his own security in jeopardy and permanently sabotaged his future in China.


    As for XXD being an unskilled, unintelligent (some may say brutish) fighter, I agree that the “TCMA masters” who have been humiliated by him should feel even more embarrassed about it. It’s also easy for people to underestimate “brutish” fighters. Chris Leben wasn’t exactly the most stylish fighter in MMA, but he was effective and won a lot of fights. There is a saying I’ve heard often used by Taiji practitioners: 4 ounces to deflect 1,000 pounds. Well, things are much different when an experienced fighter who knows how to fight is coming at you with real intent, and then it might not be so easy to use that 4 ounces to deflect his “1,000 pounds” of force and aggression. Fighting isn’t necessarily about intelligence, either, at least intellectually. And unskilled or not can be deceptive. IMO, if someone is effective consistently enough, then there is skill there, even if his methods aren’t ‘stylish’ or ‘pretty’ to watch.

    Like him or not, what XXD is doing takes guts. Whether it’s smart for him and his life or not is beside the point, and whether he’s likable or unlikable as a human being or not is also beside the point. But any TCMA “expert” or “master” who challenges him had better do the real work. Anybody who thinks they can just step into the ring against a professional fighter, even one who isn’t top-tier, and stand much of a chance, is seriously deluded. Then there’s no difference between them and the armchair MAists who watch boxing or MMA fights on TV and say, “That guy sucks. I can kick his @ss!” Then if they get the chance to spar that fighter or someone similar to him, they find out the hard way.

    I’ll also be cheering if XXD gets legitimately beaten in a fair fight. You never know; it could happen at any time, but TBH, I don’t see it happening anytime soon, considering the types of opponents he’s taking.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 12-19-2019 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #227
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Bay Area, CA
    for perspective here, the fake masters are far more a stain to themselves more than XXD is to himself. Also the fake masters, though they cannot tarnish TCMA, do more against TCMA in their own expression, than XXD in his.
    that said, my only frustration with the "XXD show", is that XXD doesn't pick better fighters with all of his "frustration" and effort. While I admire the courage, and the ability to put the show together, it gives us something to watch and talk about,..... I personally, and emphasizing personally, want to see some great fighters with traditional roots who have mastered using TCMA in the ring, make a solid stand against great fighters with kickboxing or MMA roots who can do more that use size or brute line attacks.

    now there is nothing wrong with brute force at all. especially when its well matched. However, XXD's matches are not paired fairly by weight class, so to see him use his strength is boring. All the while he's arguing against someones lack of skill or poor application, I'd like to see some application from him, at least some decent grappling or kickboxing (MMA) stuff he claims he does.

    We can agree that in martial arts, of any discipline, you dont have to be flashy or show out to display technical fighting skill and application. In boxing you have the part of the sport which is very technical, and graceful, then you have the brute force side. Some fighters are better and one, some at both. We all like those who can do both.
    Same with Pro Muay Thai, or even in the UFC. You have that balance. Why make an exception for XXD, and he has such a big mouth?
    All Im saying is he can do better, and should. First by picking better fighters to challenge. Thats actually enough. Whatever he has in him, better fighters will definitely bring it out of him. I know the saps he's been fighting dont put up much of a challenge or force him to perform better.

    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

  3. #228
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    to survive...

    Chinese mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong rose to fame exposing fake kung fu – now he just wants to ‘survive’
    When China’s most controversial fighter headed to Bangkok for the biggest match of his career, his first concern was whether he would be allowed on the flight
    Back in Beijing, he has faced visits from unnamed officials and repeated suspensions of his social media accounts
    Published: 1:00pm, 1 Feb, 2020

    Controversial Chinese mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong in training for the biggest fight of his career. Photo: Qin Chen

    This article was written by Qin Chen and Arman Dzidzovic, and originally appeared in Inkstone, a daily digest of six China-focused stories.
    When Xu Xiaodong, China’s most controversial mixed martial artist, beat former Japanese kick-boxing champion Yuichiro Nagashima in a Bangkok ring last November, he let out a few victorious screams.
    Then he stopped. He had just won the biggest fight of his career, but he did not want to be seen celebrating. “If I look too happy, there will be more people coming after me,” Xu said after the fight.
    The 41-year-old said that a few weeks earlier he was worried he might not be allowed to leave Beijing.
    “It would be hard for other athletes to imagine what I’m going through,” he said, a week before he was due to travel to Bangkok.
    “My fight organisers are withholding all promotion. They’re afraid that I won’t be able to leave China. I honestly can’t believe I have sunk this low.”
    Xu’s rise to infamy started in 2017, when he beat a tai chi master in 20 seconds in a fight that became a viral video. He gained instant fame but his account on Weibo, China’s microblogging platform, was shut down a few days later as the state-run Chinese Wushu Association berated the fight, saying it “violated the spirit of martial arts” and was “potentially illegal”.
    Undeterred, he later took down three other kung fu masters in high-profile matches streamed online.
    In May 2019, he was temporarily barred by a Chinese court from travelling on high-speed trains or booking flights and hotels because he refused to apologise to Chen Xiaowang, a tai chi master, after losing a defamation case to Chen.

    Xu Xiaodong (top) becomes the first Chinese person to fight and win a main event at Bangkok’s Lumpinee Boxing Stadium. Photo: Handout

    Around that time, nearly all of Xu’s social media accounts in China were suspended without explanation. But he decided to double down by using a virtual private network to open YouTube and Twitter accounts.
    “I just did not give a **** any more … I know it’s illegal to hop over the censorship wall, but I also know they can’t block me once I’m on YouTube,” Xu said at a Beijing gym in November. “As long as I’m alive, I will keep live-streaming on YouTube.”
    When Xu made his first YouTube appearance in August 2019, he chose to tackle the most controversial topic of the day: the ongoing anti-government protests in Hong Kong, which had begun two months earlier.
    Soon after that live stream, Xu was awakened by knocking on the door of his Beijing flat. His young daughter opened the door to two uniformed Chinese officials.
    Xu, who refused to give more detail, used a vague Chinese term, the “related departments,” to identify the officials. “They can go after me however they want. But by coming to my home, they were threatening me through my family,” he said, months after the visit.
    So when Xu was allowed to pass through immigration at Beijing’s Daxing International Airport for his Bangkok fight, he was relieved.
    He was on his way to his first competition outside China. For Xu, it was his first opportunity to prove his critics wrong.
    Many had claimed he won fame by beating up kung fu masters with little professional fighting experience, or that some were smaller in size than him.

    The fight between Chinese tai chi master Wei Lei and Xu Xiaodong in 2017 lasted just 20 seconds. Photo: Imagine China

    That was why he decided to take on 35-year-old Nagashima, famous for dressing up in anime cosplay on his way into the ring and a K-1 kick-boxing winner with three back-to-back knockouts in 2010 – a proper professional.
    Speaking to some 240,000 viewers on his YouTube live stream after the fight, Xu said he was just thankful the fight had happened at all, saying the organisers had faced pressure from Chinese authorities to cancel it.
    But a day after his win in Bangkok, it was back to reality – his account on Weibo was suspended once again. It was his 12th account, which he had opened just six days before. Every time one of his Chinese social media accounts gets shut down, Xu sets up a new one. He is now on his 14th.
    Recently, he suffered a new blow. On January 2, his business account on Tencent-owned WeChat, through which he used to receive donations from his fans on YouTube, was suspended. It was one of his main sources of income, besides teaching mixed martial arts in gyms across Beijing.
    Xu said he felt the suspension was “treacherous” and potentially threatened his ability to make a living. And even though he was allowed to travel to Thailand, he worries he may be banned from travelling abroad in the future.
    The constant worry and paranoia has diminished the once-boastful, bombastic Xu, who said he just wants “some basic rights” in 2020, like the means to earn a living and the freedom to travel.
    “My new year resolution for the year is simple: to survive,” he said.
    By 'survive', does he really just mean remain significant as an interwebz influencer?
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  4. #229
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    CA, USA
    What was he expecting? Regardless of how I feel about the fake KF masters he was exposing, it’s obvious that Xu isn’t exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

  5. #230
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.

    Don't believe the hype

    Martial Arts / Kung Fu
    Chinese kung fu ‘masters’ told to clean up act and stop bringing shame to traditional martial arts
    Chinese Wushu Association says behaviour of self-proclaimed ‘masters’ has damaged the overall image of traditional martial arts
    Practitioners warned not to appoint themselves as ‘kung fu masters’, ‘authentic masters’ or ‘legacy inheritors’ and stop faking documents and certificates
    Patrick Blennerhassett
    Published: 1:37pm, 16 Jul, 2020

    The Chinese Wushu Association is pleading with “masters” like tai chi practitioner Ma Baoguo to stop hyping fights. Photo: Handout

    The Chinese Wushu Association is cracking down on kung fu “masters” from overhyping themselves and bringing detrimental effects to traditional martial arts in China.
    The association published directives in a “proposal” on its website last week, saying also it would give “guidance” and help promote the various traditional martial arts disciplines.

    In the past few years, practitioners have hyped fights for financial or personal gain, which has brought a lot of controversy.
    The CWA’s proposal, “Ways to strengthen self discipline in the business and enhance wushu culture in China” – which can be read as a “directive” as it is the governing body – says the behaviour of self-proclaimed “masters” has also damaged the overall image of traditional martial arts.
    A number of videos have gone viral of tai chi “masters” being badly beaten in actual fights, primarily with modern-day mixed martial arts practitioners.

    Mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong has been on a crusade to expose fake martial arts masters. Image: YouTube

    The latest viral craze involved tai chi master Ma Baoguo who was knocked out cold by an amateur martial arts fighter 20 years his junior. The 69-year-old was left unconscious in his fight debut in Shandong.
    Arguably, the most well-known MMA fighter in China, who has been on a crusade to expose fake martial arts masters, is maverick Xu Xiaodong. Nicknamed “Mad Dog”, he has taken a number of fights with various practitioners and subsequently been blacklisted in his home country.
    The CWA is appealing to all the country’s martial artists to uphold “self-discipline” and avoid “hyping themselves as masters” or become involved in other “violations”.
    Recently some fake masters arbitrarily set up different sects and appointed themselves as “head” of these fake sects for personal gain, making use of the popularity of traditional Chinese martial arts in the community to promote commercial activities through overhyped fights.
    “This has severely tarnished the image of the traditional martial arts and must be totally prohibited,” the directive says.
    The CWA is asking martial arts practitioners not to appoint themselves as “kung fu masters”, “authentic masters” or “legacy inheritors” and not to fake any documents or certificates related to their training or “alleged prowess”.
    “Practitioners of different martial arts styles should respect each other, communicate sincerely, enhance unity, and improve together, and must not defame, maliciously attack, or discriminate against others,” the association says.

    Tai chi master Ma Baoguo is knocked out in Shandong. Image: YouTube

    The directive also suggests a skills evaluation should be done through the proper Chinese martial arts ranking systems, and that they should not randomly create new kung fu styles, schools and also respect other fellow martial artists.

    This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: Kung fu ‘masters’ told to clean up their overhyped act

    Patrick Blennerhassett
    Patrick Blennerhassett is an award-winning Canadian journalist and four-time published author. He is a Jack Webster Fellowship winner and a British Columbia bestselling novelist. He has covered sport for the South China Morning Post since 2018.
    Gene Ching
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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