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Thread: Tim Larkin explains self-defense techniques | MMA...

  1. #1
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    Tim Larkin explains self-defense techniques | MMA...

    See this video right here!!! This dude went back friggin' 17 yrs ago and is saying sh!t I was spouting off in since before 2000

    The part where he speaks from about 1:30sec to 2:15 secs or so is almost word for word what I was warning people about in past threads. My sentiments exactly!




    People like Dave Ross was giving me sh!t about it too. Mother flowers, I swear man!

    Especially in this old thread: Ever used any TMA in a Street fight successfully? !
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    Last edited by Subitai; 05-20-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hello,

    Thank you for sharing, that is a very good clip, well analyzed and great points. I have always felt the same way about sport fighting the way Tim Larkin has analyzed it. That is no disrespect to the fighters, they are in A+ shape and can do some damage. However Tim Larkin is right to be pointing out what he did.

    I doubt this video will go as viral as the "Tai Chi/ MMA" fight in China.

    What it comes down to is function-ability. When learning proper mechanics and applications in Tai Chi push hands, the focus is on applying the right mechanics into the science and knowledge of how you move, angle, respond, lock, throw, bump, etc. I have some training in both Tai Chi and Longfist; not saying I am the best.

    I think I have shared this before, I was training a bit in a parking lot one day and a drunk MMA guy came over to me and started mocking the movements I was doing (after roundhouse kicks and stringing combos together in my shadow boxing, probably running through some forms, I did some Tai Chi movements, he saw the Tai Chi movements only I think, not what I was doing earlier, and came over.) Well, a fight did START to happen. After a bit of shoving, etc. he tried to bash my head in, but I saw him swinging from the corner of my eye and dodged by maybe, a mili-inch. Since we were in close range I followed through with a hip bump (kao), a technique I had worked with a partner in Tai Chi push hands class. He went reeling backwards maybe 3 or 4 car spaces and landed face first on the pavement. After a second and his initial shock wore off, he curled up like a baby turtle and exclaimed, "don't kill me!" If I was a violent person, which I tend not to be, I would have stuck to him and ground and pounded him. Instead I stayed where I was from where I threw the hip bump and let him get back up. He was ****ed, words were exchanged but I was calm about it, the situation de-escalated and we walked away our separate ways.

    As you said in your other thread, describing some of your own students, I am a raw student when it comes to martial arts training. I have only trained the TCMA, as far as a "martial art" goes. I was in good athletic shape before such training though (running, working). Sometimes I can appreciate MMA for what it is depending on my mood, just saying, being honest to my lens of the world. But I am turned off by the whole bread and circus of it. When I was 18 years old or so and not taking exercise seriously yet. I was at a carnival (outside an Iggy Pop concert) and two gym rats with "perfectly" chiseled bodies, with a hot babe over each one's shoulder, were trying to swing the mallet to hit the target and make the bell rise up and go "ding." I was watching them for like 5 minutes and they couldn't do it. I went over, then a young mr. leather jacket and cigarette dangling from mouth, swung the mallet and got the "ding" in one swing. Why? Because I know the proper mechanics of how to swing an axe/ mallet from chopping fire-wood.

    Also, I grew up with one foot in the country and still like to think that I do. Every young kid who spends a lot of time in the woods knows the art of stealth to some extent, and also to be very aware of your surroundings. Again, even today, if I can build giant stone walls and effigies up in the hills, a feat of hard labor; and still train my kung fu, and still even run, get the upper hand in a street scuffle, I don't have to prove anything to anybody. I think a lot of people who train in the traditional arts who can functionally use their training (at least to some degree) feel this way.

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    Seems like functional kung fu training may be able to help somebody take on somebody swinging a 2X4 at you better than sport fight training. Break the wood with your conditioned Pop-Eye forearms with a block, or better sense of surroundings/ angles when moving in/ standing up against it. Yeah me knows, easy to sez on a computah, but still I'll says it!
    Last edited by MarathonTmatt; 05-21-2017 at 08:44 AM.

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    Think I missed the part where he said doing pushing hands and long fist forms would make you any better than the mma guys in a similar situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Think I missed the part where he said doing pushing hands and long fist forms would make you any better than the mma guys in a similar situation?
    Than you misunderstand my post. Function-ability is what I was stressing. True, a LARPER (I had to look that term up) will probably FAIL. If you are able to emerge victorious from a scrape or a scuffle or a street fight with ANY kind of training- be it boxing, wrestling, kickboxing, karate or tcma, due to your training and applied knowledge base, conditioning or whatever, than it is a function-able martial art that works "for real." I gave an example of how I applied a technique from my push hands training that WORKED against somebody trying to take me out. Why does it have to be "better" than an MMA guy's training? If it works, it works.

    Also, I was trying to stress the mind-set. One point that Mr. Larkin explained was that, as shown in the video, they were not taking in their surroundings, they were one-track minded against one vs. one, not thinking about stealth against multiple opponents. I mentioned my time growing up in the woods. Learn how to track. To be stealthy. To stay invisible if need be (for one's own survival). And I'm not saying that lightly.

    I don't need to explain myself like this to a dozen people. Everybody here including you has my respect. What were those two guys doing like that in the convenient store anyway. I'm sorry for what happened to them. I wouldn't want to get caught in that situation either, god bless their souls. But I do agree with Mr. Lafkin's video. Don't tell me that Tai Chi or Long Fist or Kung Fu doesn't work if I have used it successfully.

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    Plus, the 2X4. Larkin explained that the sport fighter did not react properly. Personally I have hauled boulders up a hillside by hand, blood sweat and tears. Many times. And have worked in stone, doing heavy solo labor work with the stone. That was to it's own end. But hey, good side effect of that when combined with proper, traditional martial arts training. My instinct would probably be to move in on the guy with the 2X4 and brush the blow off from the 2X4 (forearm conditioning) and kick his ass. According to Larkin, Sports fighter failed where a traditionally trained person may not. (and yes I realize that is a *MAY not.)

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    Very easy to retrospectively dissect the situation and advise on what they 'should' have done. Even if they did what was suggested regarding awareness, movement etc. they were most likely gonna get it in the end. Numbers, plus weapons and bad intentions trumps pretty much all training. The overall premise regarding real violence vs. combat sports is correct though.

  8. #8
    *mma guys get ambushed by 10 people

    "see guys mma doesn't work ill stick to my long fist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    Plus, the 2X4. Larkin explained that the sport fighter did not react properly. Personally I have hauled boulders up a hillside by hand, blood sweat and tears. Many times. And have worked in stone, doing heavy solo labor work with the stone. That was to it's own end. But hey, good side effect of that when combined with proper, traditional martial arts training. My instinct would probably be to move in on the guy with the 2X4 and brush the blow off from the 2X4 (forearm conditioning) and kick his ass. According to Larkin, Sports fighter failed where a traditionally trained person may not. (and yes I realize that is a *MAY not.)
    You have an amazing ability to drag every f'n irrelevant statement into a single, non-coherent argument. So, when do we get to the telepathic aliens? Or how about comment on what would be different if they just had long hair to sense their approaching enemy...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    You have an amazing ability to drag every f'n irrelevant statement into a single, non-coherent argument. So, when do we get to the telepathic aliens? Or how about comment on what would be different if they just had long hair to sense their approaching enemy...
    It is most obvious that MarathonTmatt is doing his best "wiz cool c" imitation. He is so dead on that I am getting the chills. Matt usually does not write like that. If he mentioned an eye poke, I would have had to change my shorts.

    mickey

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    It is most obvious that MarathonTmatt is doing his best "wiz cool c" imitation. He is so dead on that I am getting the chills. Matt usually does not write like that. If he mentioned an eye poke, I would have had to change my shorts.

    mickey
    Thanks for checking me. What I wrote was from an emotional base low level. It's true, I was ROFL too after I posted it but I guess I let it fly. Every practitioner worth anything knows how to apply. I wrote a whole bunch about a scuffle that was diffused, there are better stories others have, you might even say my story was a bit juvenile. if I was an un-trained person that scuffle may not have gone so well. The woods, tracking skills. Carnivals. None of that really relates to the video about the two guys in Brazil. Anyone can analyze a video on the internet and pick it apart. Nobody wants to get whacked in the head by a 2X4, I know I don't. I need to remember why I joined the forum in the first place- much like collecting every issue of a martial arts magazine this forum has some good threads, with people posting that are much older and more experienced than myself.

  12. #12
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    So, here is the thing and we have discussed this quite a bit:
    The issue here is that those two idiots have become so "comfortable" with violence ( which happens to the vast majority of fighters) that they either failed to realize or have never realized that there is a difference between "controlled violence" ( full contact sport fighting) and "uncontrolled violence" ( the so-called real world).
    Their over confidence is what cost them.
    MMA tends ( and I have seen this first hand) to give people a false sense of security because they can, typically, handle themselves very well and a fight.
    Well, real world isn't JUST about being able to fight.
    It is JUST as much IF NOT MORE SO about:
    Situational awareness
    Violence DEESCALATION
    The ability to fight multiple opponents and weapons and survive
    And so forth.

    In the real world one must always assume:
    There is more than one.
    There is always a weapon.
    You have VERY LIMITED time to deal with an attacker.

    Now, MMA is a sport and as such they do NOT address this anymore than boxing does or wrestling BUT, and we all have to be very honest here, neither do the vast majority of MA, period.

    This whole situation could have been avoided and THAT is the REAL lesson to take from this.

    Sad thing is that pretty much every MMA coach and trainer I know do NOT advocate or condone fighting in the street and ALL will tell you that it is a very different environment so these people and fighters going around spewing crap and so forth are NOT speaking for MMA anymore than TMA that never fight and get their asses handed to them are speaking for the TMA that DO fight.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    *mma guys get ambushed by 10 people

    "see guys mma doesn't work ill stick to my long fist"
    For those turning this incident into an issue about MMA vs. TCMA, it isn't about that. It's about a lack of social skills and respect. That's what got their asses kicked. They were acting like hoodlums and paid the price, plain & simple.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    So, here is the thing and we have discussed this quite a bit:
    The issue here is that those two idiots have become so "comfortable" with violence ( which happens to the vast majority of fighters) that they either failed to realize or have never realized that there is a difference between "controlled violence" ( full contact sport fighting) and "uncontrolled violence" ( the so-called real world).
    Their over confidence is what cost them.
    MMA tends ( and I have seen this first hand) to give people a false sense of security because they can, typically, handle themselves very well and a fight.
    Well, real world isn't JUST about being able to fight.
    It is JUST as much IF NOT MORE SO about:
    Situational awareness
    Violence DEESCALATION
    The ability to fight multiple opponents and weapons and survive
    And so forth.

    In the real world one must always assume:
    There is more than one.
    There is always a weapon.
    You have VERY LIMITED time to deal with an attacker.

    Now, MMA is a sport and as such they do NOT address this anymore than boxing does or wrestling BUT, and we all have to be very honest here, neither do the vast majority of MA, period.

    This whole situation could have been avoided and THAT is the REAL lesson to take from this.

    Sad thing is that pretty much every MMA coach and trainer I know do NOT advocate or condone fighting in the street and ALL will tell you that it is a very different environment so these people and fighters going around spewing crap and so forth are NOT speaking for MMA anymore than TMA that never fight and get their asses handed to them are speaking for the TMA that DO fight.
    Great post that sums it up nicely.

    I've mentioned this before, but at least 20 years ago and not far from where I live, a former AAU national wrestling champion/wakeboarder named Dusty Harless initiated a street fight with a guy in a car who had made a pass at his girlfriend. He pulled the guy out of his car and took him to the ground, but the guy pulled a knife and stabbed backwards once, severing his aorta and killing him. He was 25. Harless had been well-known in the area, and prior to this incident, he had engaged in numerous street fights and had always won. The guy who killed him had no training or fighting experience. This case was featured in an episode of Forensic Files.

    This is only one perfect example of fighting ability NOT being a guarantee of survival on the streets; that situational awareness, avoidance/deescalation, etc., etc., etc., are far more important. Because no matter how good you are (or think you are), willfully engaging in brawling/street fighting is playing Russian roulette. There is always someone who has the capacity, the willingness, or enough fear/desperation, psychopathy and/or numbers to go one step further than you might be prepared to handle. They don't need to be bigger, stronger or 'better' than you.

    I'll also mention an instance of a woman who was known to be trained in a self-defense-oriented MA. She was kidnapped by a serial killer who took her at knifepoint into the woods. At one point, the woman fought back at her kidnapper and had actually defeated and disarmed him. But out of bad habit almost certainly acquired in her training environment, she tossed the knife back to him. Wherein the killer regained the advantage and she ended up brutally murdered, just one more of his victims. This fact came from the killer's own mouth after he was captured.

    So it isn't an 'MMA or wrestling vs. TMA in the street' argument, but context (between competitive sport fighting; practicing self-defense techniques in a safe environment; and 'real life', where literally anything can happen) and situational awareness. And in the case of the 2 guys in the gas station, dropping the machismo BS that gets so many people killed. The specific art or method you train (or don't train) has far less to do with it.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 05-29-2017 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #15
    competition sports is different from real violence but this thread was posted in reaction to the recent Xu xiaodong tcma beatdown and is used to deflect criticism away from tcma. those mma guys survived for many minutes, average Wednesday night dance studio tcma cannot survive 1 second.
    Last edited by bawang; 06-01-2017 at 11:48 PM.

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