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Thread: VT ideas at longer range

  1. #1

    VT ideas at longer range

    Having been motivated by the discussion on martial talk I thought I would post some clips containing some ideas

    Enjoy:

    First one from about 0.45

  2. #2
    Second from about 0.17

  3. #3
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    Hard to imagine a viable striking art not addressing obvious ranges of standup fighting.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Hard to imagine a viable striking art not addressing obvious ranges of standup fighting.
    Which makes it so odd that some people (most people!?) don't have any understanding of how VT works at longer range.

    Why continue in VT if it doesn't work?

  5. #5
    For example, from martial talk:

    Quote Originally Posted by KPM
    As I've pointed out already, Wing Chun does not have a "long range game." It may have a strategy for getting from long range to its preferred close range, but this is not the same thing as having a "long range game." See the "Wing Chun Boxing" thread for more on that. And you really do need to have a good long range game to function well in a sparring setting.
    All KPM is admitting here is that he doesn't have functional VT as soon as he loses contact with his opponent, i.e. his VT is not functional in the slightest, since loss of contact is almost guaranteed in fighting. Throws a lot of light on various other arguments.

  6. #6
    Hopefully those guys arguing on the other forum will be able to get some idea of the WSL VT approach in this thread. I think the well might be a bit poisoned on that forum?

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    The other problem is if you are outclassed at close-range, you just get beat?

    With no recourse at longer-range to find a better tactical entry, or to protect yourself on the outside, you either just get beat or put your head down and try to grapple someone who's already giving you a beating. Forward pressure! No retreat!

    Most Wing Chun people would likely be getting the beating for trying to stick to arms that just want to punch them in the first place. So, it's probably not going to go too well.

    What an intelligent method not to consider common ranges of standup and to have no recovery method in case things go wrong at your preferred range!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    The other problem is if you are outclassed at close-range, you just get beat?

    With no recourse at longer-range to find a better tactical entry, or to protect yourself on the outside, you either just get beat or put your head down and try to grapple someone who's already giving you a beating. Forward pressure! No retreat!

    Most Wing Chun people would likely be getting the beating for trying to stick to arms that just want to punch them in the first place. So, it's probably not going to go too well.

    What an intelligent method not to consider common ranges of standup and to have no recovery method in case things go wrong at your preferred range!
    I think all this shows is that wing chun based styles with this idea are broken or at best have large gaps. Filling these holes with something that is not VT will obviously lead to conflicts and more problems.

  9. #9
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    There is no such thing as "short" "medium" or "long" range.

    This is only contact and non contact.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

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    Quote Originally Posted by guy b. View Post
    Hopefully those guys arguing on the other forum will be able to get some idea of the WSL VT approach in this thread. I think the well might be a bit poisoned on that forum?
    I explained there in good detail that there is a difference between having a "long range game" as Boxing does, and having a strategy for surviving at long range long enough to be able to transition to your preferred close range. I'm sure you must have read it. And yet you think those PB videos you posted show a "long range game" equivalent to what I was describing?
    Last edited by Sihing73; 06-29-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    a "long range game" as Boxing does
    Boxing doesn't really have a long-range game, since there's no kicking allowed.

    Boxing stances and footwork are vulnerable to kicks at a range where they can't land punches without leaping forward, because they don't have to worry about kicks in the sport.

    VT has kicks. That's about as long-range a technique as you can get without weapons.

    An opponent can be kept at bay with leg kicks, and such kicks can also be fight-enders. So, what's this that VT has no "long-range game"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    There is no such thing as "short" "medium" or "long" range.

    This is only contact and non contact.
    Pretty much.

    I can contact a boxer with kicks where he can't reach me, yet boxing has long-range and VT doesn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Pretty much.

    I can contact a boxer with kicks where he can't reach me, yet boxing has long-range and VT doesn't?
    yes he can reach you, he has a thing thing called footwork which allows him to get into the distance he wants to

    and he does have a long and short range game its just build around the sports requirements and limitations

    Why am i bothering you already have all the answers to your own question they are rhetorical you just like to sound off with Guy and you cant do it on the other forum so here you are !

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Pretty much.

    I can contact a boxer with kicks where he can't reach me, yet boxing has long-range and VT doesn't?
    So, you are either in contact range or not...........whether someone or a specific art trains a particular attribute does not change the "range". If a boxer decided to incorporate kicking he would have the same options of being in a position where he has the ability to make or contact or not. Really does not matter what someone trains if they can't reach you.

    I find it kind of amusing that for someone who states that there are no "techniques/applications" in their approach to VT/WC/WT and that everything is really just a punch (Taun is a method of punching according to your past posts) that you are comfortable with dividing contact into various ranges. Would seem the simple approach would be to accept there is contact and non contact. Less chance of muddying the waters. Of course there can be variations of said contact but when you focus on a specific subset such as long or short etc, you really limit your responses. In a sense you can get tunnel vision and rather than simply flowing with what is given waste time trying to fit something into your understanding of range.

    Bottom line is that if I can reach you and make contact my WC/WT/VT can work. If I can't reach you or make contact then it really doesn't matter since all I can do is punch or kick air.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    yes he can reach you, he has a thing thing called footwork which allows him to get into the distance he wants to
    Did I say a boxer can never reach me? No.

    I said I can reach him with kicks at a distance where he can't reach me without leaping forward.

    Unless someone has arms longer than my legs...

    and he does have a long and short range game its just build around the sports requirements and limitations
    Exactly my point. It doesn't consider dangers of a kicking opponent, and is not allowed to kick.
    So, its tools at "long-range" are limited to arms' length punches, and lunging/leaping punches to extend a bit further.

    It doesn't have long-range weapons like kicks, as VT does. Not a problem for the sport. But, it's silly/ignorant to say boxing has long-range while VT doesn't.

    Why am i bothering you already have all the answers to your own question they are rhetorical you just like to sound off with Guy and you cant do it on the other forum so here you are !
    Been posting on here for years, long before ever going to that forum.
    I'm also not banned there, and have been quite active on the current threads.
    Last edited by LFJ; 06-29-2017 at 06:18 AM.

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