Does your style have any of these moves?

[ghostexorcist]

In his book The Shaolin Monastery (2008), Meir Shahar presents a poem from Journey to the West (1592) in which describes unarmed combat between Sun Wukong and a rhinoceros demon. Shahar notes that it contains common Ming dynasty martial arts jargon. I was wondering if any practitioners here recognize any of the named moves from your own style. If you do recognize the names, I'm interested in learning what the technique, especially those with the more esoteric names, entails. I know the Guanyin palm is listed among the 72 Shaolin arts. I also believe the four levels posture is among those of Taiji.

Opening wide the “Four Levels Posture”;
The double-kicking feet fly up.
They pound the ribs and chests;
They stab at galls and hearts.
“The Immortal pointing the Way”;
“Lao Zi Riding the Crane”;
“A Hungry Tiger Pouncing on the Prey” is most hurtful;
“A Dragon Playing with Water” is quite vicious.
The demon king uses a “Serpent Turning Around”;
The Great Sage employs a “Deer Letting Loose its Horns.”
The dragon plunges to Earth with heels upturned;
The wrist twists around to seize Heaven’s bag.
Fist Fighting and Self-Cultivation
A green lion’s open-mouthed lunge;
A carp’s snapped-back flip.
Sprinkling flowers over the head;
Tying a rope around the waist;
A fan moving with the wind;
The rain driving down the flowers.
The monster-spirit then uses the “Guanyin Palm,”
And pilgrim counters with the “Arhat Feet.”
The “Long-Range Fist,” stretching, is more slack, of course.
How could it compare with the “Close-Range Fist’s” sharp jabs?
The two of them fought for many rounds—
None was the stronger, for they are evenly matched

[Orion Paximus]

Well I have a few but not all are unarmed:

“The Immortal pointing the Way” is in a jian form called Dragon Shape Sword

“Serpent Turning Around” there is a bagua/silk reeling exercise called "Serpent entwines the body"

"Dragon Playing with Water" could be "Dragon splashes palms" from Hung Gar dragon set

that's about all I got.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I think the onus is upon Meir Shahar to show what the moves are since since he recognizes them as "common Ming dynasty martial arts jargon". I consider remarks like that, without back up (i.e, without exposition as to what the techniques look like) and given the seriousness of the work, to be shockingly flippant.


mickey

[ghostexorcist]

Well I have a few but not all are unarmed:

“The Immortal pointing the Way” is in a jian form called Dragon Shape Sword

“Serpent Turning Around” there is a bagua/silk reeling exercise called "Serpent entwines the body"

"Dragon Playing with Water" could be "Dragon splashes palms" from Hung Gar dragon set

that's about all I got.

Thank you for the reply. Very interesting. Since the fight is unarmed, it's possible "The Immortal pointing the way" is a finger attack aimed at the eyes. What do you think?

Greetings,

I think the onus is upon Meir Shahar to show what the moves are since since he recognizes them as "common Ming dynasty martial arts jargon". I consider remarks like that, without back up (i.e, without exposition as to what the techniques look like) and given the seriousness of the work, to be shockingly flippant.


mickey

These are Shahar's exact words: "When he is deprived of his weapon, the valiant monkey resorts to hand combat, giving the author an opportunity to display his familiarity with the contemporary jargon of 'postures' (shi and jiazi), 'Long-Range Fist' (changquan), and 'Close-Range Fist' (duanquan)".

[RenDaHai]

A lot of these are indeed common moves,

I often look at old QuanPu and there are some common technique names between the many styles.

However, there is a problem, though there are common names they will sometimes mean something different in different styles.

Xian Ren Zhi Lu
Immortal points the way is a common one, it is almost always sword fingers on both hands, front hand points forewards and down slightly, the other hand touches the front hand at the wrist with sword fingers to support it. Stance is a lunge. However there is also a version for every stance, then for Shun, Heng, Xie (side-on, horizontal, diagonal attitudes) etc. So a lot of variation.

Edit; THe use of XIan Ren Zhi Lu is in the fingers, but you don't strike hard, if you do that you miss, AND break your fingers, you touch the target from close range then suddenly push in really hard from contact. Use the supporting hand to grasp the striking hand at the wrist to enhance push in power. DOne from contact range. Typically at eyes, or throat.

Carp FLip and laozi riding crane are also common (though often it is laojun 老君, which is anohter way of saying lao zi) Carp flip in modern terms is the flick up from the floor but in old terms is usually a throw over the shoulder. It refers to a carp jumping over the dragon gate, if it succeeds it becomes a dragon.

The same names are used for weapons as well.

Four even stance is the standard fighting stance of the style, the neutral stance you always return to, but can be unique to a style. Si Ping Shi. It will have Di, zhong, gao, that is high, medium, low versions. HOWEVER if the Quanpu says La Kai Si Ping Shi (pull out four even stance) then it is often referring to the classic ma bu dan bian, that is horse stance with fists extended to either side, straight arms.

DOuble kicking feet is ErQiJiao and has 2 meanings, either the knee up then kick on ohter leg, also referred to as Shuang fei yan (double flying swallows) OR it means leaping forwards and lifting each knee in turn to propel you further as a piece of footwork rather than an attack.

E'Hu pu shi, Hungry tiger pouncing on prey has a LOT of different moves with the same name,

As does dragon playing with water, usually puking out water.

Tying the rope around the waist is usually where you do an armlock on the opponent but use your body to lock his arm rather than your arm. So like HIS ARM is the rope and you tie HIS ARM around your waist. This move is in Shaolins popular form Lian Huan Quan, its the pu bu where you turn one way then back the other. Also known as wrap a jade belt around the waist. BUT with weapons it is another technique, it is when you hold the sword to your waist while running away then suddenly turn around and use waist to propel sword back into opponent.


Any chance of the Chinese characters to be sure? I will cross reference them with my document of Quanpu. But wither way Shahar is correct, these are all common poetic names in old Quan Pu, but the moves are not set in stone.

[RenDaHai]

These are all 4 character names by the looks of it, there are usually also 7 character names which give a little more info, here is the Luohan 18 hands poem from Shaolin temple, this is NOT the popular version of the form but a village version;

轩辕跨虎征蚩尤 - Xuan Yuan Kua Hu Zheng Chi You
'The yellow emperor rides a tiger to search for the master of blacksmiths'
仙人指路莫发愁 - Xian Ren Zhi Lu Mo Fa Chou
'An immortal points the way, there is no need to doubt him'
回头望月龙摆尾 - Hui Tou Wang Yue Long Bai Wei
'He travels the extremities of the Earth in his search'
童子拜佛把路修 - Tong Zi Bai Fo Ba Lu Xiu
'He prays to buddha to cultivate the road'
梅广献花扭头看 - Mei Guang Xian Hua Niu Tou Kan
'He looks around and sees flowers of spring'
鸿雁展翅知春秋 - Hong Yan Zhan Chi Zhi Chun Qiu
'A wild goose spreads his wings to signify the passing of summer'
猿猴摘桃来献果 - Yuan Hou Zhai Tao Lai Xian Guo
'Monkeys pick the autumn fruit'
魁星点元占鳌头 - Kui Xing Dian Yuan Zhan Ao Tou
'The star prince stands upon the turtles head, the Emperor is become the best in his field'
高祖剑斩百帝子 - Gao Zu Jian Zhan Bai Di Zi
'just as Gao Zu beheads a hundred rivals'
王祥卧冰将鱼求 - Wang Xiang Wo Bing Jiang Yu Qiu
'just as Wang Xiang lies on the ice to prey for a carp to feed his mother'
燕子汲取长江水 - Yan Zi Ji Qu Chang Jiang Shui
'just as A swallow drinks from the fast flowing yangtze river'
鲤鱼翻身跳龙楼 - Li Yu Fan Shen Tiao Long Lou
'just as A carp jumps over the dragon gate to become a dragon'
金刚罗汉斗猛虎 - Jing Gang Luo Han Dou Meng Hu
'And A Vajra Saint struggles with a fierce tiger, so the emperor has overcome his obstacles'
仙鹤晾翅望九洲 - Xian He Liang Che Wang Jiu Zhou
'An immortal crane is born and glides across the world'
悟空束身水帘洞 - Wu Kong Shu Shen Shui Lian Dong
'The monkey king binds himself in the water curtain cave'
白蛇吐信神鬼忧 - Bai Shi Tu Xin Shen Gui You
'The white snake speaks a truth that worries gods and ghosts'
天师神弹射天狗 - Tian Shi Shen Tan Shi Tian Gou
'The Celestial Master expels the demons'
紧那武姿传千秋 - Jin Na Wu Zi Chuan Qian Qiu
'JinNa's Warlike spirit will transmit for 1000 years'

anyone want to see this form?

There are also 14 character names for some forms (not this one) that contain additional information about the application.

[ghostexorcist]

A lot of these are indeed common moves,

I often look at old QuanPu and there are some common technique names between the many styles.

However, there is a problem, though there are common names they will sometimes mean something different in different styles.

Xian Ren Zhi Lu
Immortal points the way is a common one, it is almost always sword fingers on both hands, front hand points forewards and down slightly, the other hand touches the front hand at the wrist with sword fingers to support it. Stance is a lunge. However there is also a version for every stance, then for Shun, Heng, Xie (side-on, horizontal, diagonal attitudes) etc. So a lot of variation.

Edit; THe use of XIan Ren Zhi Lu is in the fingers, but you don't strike hard, if you do that you miss, AND break your fingers, you touch the target from close range then suddenly push in really hard from contact. Use the supporting hand to grasp the striking hand at the wrist to enhance push in power. DOne from contact range. Typically at eyes, or throat.

Carp FLip and laozi riding crane are also common (though often it is laojun 老君, which is anohter way of saying lao zi) Carp flip in modern terms is the flick up from the floor but in old terms is usually a throw over the shoulder. It refers to a carp jumping over the dragon gate, if it succeeds it becomes a dragon.

The same names are used for weapons as well.

Four even stance is the standard fighting stance of the style, the neutral stance you always return to, but can be unique to a style. Si Ping Shi. It will have Di, zhong, gao, that is high, medium, low versions. HOWEVER if the Quanpu says La Kai Si Ping Shi (pull out four even stance) then it is often referring to the classic ma bu dan bian, that is horse stance with fists extended to either side, straight arms.

DOuble kicking feet is ErQiJiao and has 2 meanings, either the knee up then kick on ohter leg, also referred to as Shuang fei yan (double flying swallows) OR it means leaping forwards and lifting each knee in turn to propel you further as a piece of footwork rather than an attack.

E'Hu pu shi, Hungry tiger pouncing on prey has a LOT of different moves with the same name,

As does dragon playing with water, usually puking out water.

Tying the rope around the waist is usually where you do an armlock on the opponent but use your body to lock his arm rather than your arm. So like HIS ARM is the rope and you tie HIS ARM around your waist. This move is in Shaolins popular form Lian Huan Quan, its the pu bu where you turn one way then back the other. Also known as wrap a jade belt around the waist. BUT with weapons it is another technique, it is when you hold the sword to your waist while running away then suddenly turn around and use waist to propel sword back into opponent.


Any chance of the Chinese characters to be sure? I will cross reference them with my document of Quanpu. But wither way Shahar is correct, these are all common poetic names in old Quan Pu, but the moves are not set in stone.

Thank you for both of your informative replies. Here are the Chinese characters for the poem:

拽開大四平，踢起雙飛腳。韜脅劈胸墩，剜心摘膽著。仙人指路，老子騎鶴。餓虎撲食最傷人，蛟龍戲水能兇惡。 魔王使個蟒翻身，大聖卻施鹿解角。翹跟淬地龍，扭腕拿天橐。青獅張口來，鯉魚跌脊躍。蓋頂撒花，遶腰貫索。 迎風貼扇兒，急雨催花落。妖精便使觀音掌，行者就對羅漢腳。長掌開闊自然鬆，怎比短拳多緊削。兩個相持數十 回，一般本事無強弱。

I would love to see the form you mentioned. I would even like to see a reenactment of the battle described in the poem if the names can be more or less tied to known techniques. If anyone is willing to video tape such a scene, I would embed it in a planned article for my research blog:

https://journeytothewestresearch.wordpress.com/

If not that, then pictures from boxing manuals would be great, that way readers can see the techniques.